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Reto.Circinus    1,639

WARNING: MAY BE OUTDATED

 

On my slightly unplanned visit on one of the Axis teamspeaks, there were some questions in regards to how the matchmaker places different squads into battles instead of only those who queue for a specific battle.

 

At that time I thought the person I needed was on vacation, turns out he's already back, so thanks to Reto.Stenum here's a list of the current matchmaking rules:

The matchmaker takes several factors into account:

  • Matchmaking tier (bronze, silver, gold)
  • Player skill (Currently not active!)
  • Maps selected
  • Soldier type selected
  • Vehicles that the soldier has selected (if matchmaking as tanker or pilot)
  • Resources available in the battles
  • Faction (implicit by the soldier you have selected)
  • Ping time to hosting center
  • The time you have been waiting for the matchmaker to find a suitable battle for you

 

There are four hard factors that the player chooses and these cannot be "softened up" automatically by the matchmaker:

  • Maps selected
  • Soldier type selected
  • Vehicles that the soldier has selected
  • Faction (implicit by the soldier you have selected)

 

And there is one hard factor that the matchmaker cannot "soften up" on either:

  • Each battle needs at least 5 players per side before it can start

 

These hard factors limits the amount of players you can matchmake against. If we assume that all players are divided equally across all factions then it means that one third of the playerbase if on your faction, so you have one third of the players less to play against. The same applies to the other factors.

 

If the player has selected that he only wishes to play war battles, then this factor is also a hard factor:

  • Resources (planes, tanks, men, etc.) available in the battles
  • Resources your squad committed in the battle provide extra priority
  • For non war battles, the server generates multiple missions that contain the resources needed for any type. 

 

For the soft factors the matchmaker tries to find a perfect fit:

  • Same Matchmaking tier as you
  • As low ping time as possible (with a cut-off maximum of 250ms)

 

But as the hard factors are already limiting the amount of players, then the pool of players available is already diminished to begin with.

Every 5 minutes the matchmaker “widens” the Matchmaking tier and after 10 minutes you matchmake against everyone

  • Every minute the pingtime criteria is being widened and after 8 minutes you matchmake for all hosting centers with a ping time below 250ms
  • Every 15 seconds the skill level is widened and after max 5 minutes you matchmake against everyone (Currently not active!)

 

The matchmaker collects all running and available missions and scores them according to the following criteria:

  1.    Running missions   
  2.     War missions    
  3.     Assault missions   
  4.     Skirmish missions  
  5.     Encounter missions  
  6.     3 faction missions  

 

Secondarily, a mission is prioritized by time since creation. 

 

When the matchmaker has find a suitable battle, it picks the Squad as following for war:

  • Every Squad with resources committed into the battle has a higher priority to join that specific mission
  • A game is filled up to 18 slots, with 2 spare slots so it can fit in larger squads (so maximum is 20vs20)
  • If the battle is 18vs20, you will not be able to join in, as the maximum of 18 has been reached
  • If a battle is 17vs20, a squad of maximum 3 members will be able to join the battle

 

When special resources are committed in a battle, the matchmaker automatically diversifies the Squads able to join the battle. An example:

A war battle is initiated holding Infantry, Tankers, Recons and Paratroopers.

  • 10 Infantry Squads are queued on the specific battle
  • 1 Infantry Squad, 3 Tanker Squads, 2 Recon Squads and 1 Paratrooper Squad are in the general matchmaker

 

The matchmaker will pick the Infantry Squad with highest priority. This takes into account the factors given above and the time you have been waiting in that specific battle (the longer you wait, the higher the priority is for you).

 

The matchmaker will then prioritize to represent each resource type in that battle. After it picked the Infantry squad, it will pick a Squad of a different resource type, so it will pick a tanker squad, after which it will again pick a Squad of a different resource type, in this case a Recon Squad, after which it will pick the Paratrooper Squad. Once the cycle is completed, it will pick a new infantry squad with the highest priority. It will continue to cycle and select squads of different resource types until the match is filled.

 

If you were to create a mission with infantry and tanks it will pick first an infantry squad, then a tanker squad, followed by an infantry squad and then a tanker squad. The matchmaker will of course keep the amount of available resources in mind for this.

 

If you were to create a war mission with only infantry, it will base the Squads to join solely on the amount of 'priority points' it has collected (e.g. waiting time, assault teams in battle, etc, etc). 

 

I hope this clarifies a bit how the matchmaker works right now.

 

 

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GaiusBaltar    3,575
6 hours ago, Reto.Circinus said:

Player skill (Currently not active!)

^^ when you guys implement this I will request being put in the lowest skill teir because my decent KDR on USA side is a result of strats I came up with in the early days of the game which you Reto's nerfed to hell. Or at least if you base this on KDR I'll just play with shovel until my KDR drops to lower teir levels. I don't like playing with tryhards who close out maps in 2 mins - even when they are on my side!

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kunalp    1,159
7 hours ago, Reto.Circinus said:

Player skill (Currently not active!)

 

I know the game does not have big enough playerbase to support this but we really need something in this domain to limit sealclubbing, at least in staged.

 

This will make staged more competitive for good veteran players. If they are not able to easily sealclub anymore, some might return to war.

 

This will also make it easy for new/average/bad players to grind and practice and give them a fighting chance.

 

Of course there could be a time limit (say 2-5 minutes) when skill based criteria is relaxed to prevent excessive waiting times.

Edited
Typo

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xJuliussx    70

This is absolutely terrible disavantageous for the over-populated Faction. This system is in place for over 3 years now, and in all this time was hidding and never explained to everyone to understand how it works. 

It gives a huge handicap to the overpopulated faction and to the clans who are queing for specific battles from overpopulated faction like AXIS!  And we get trolled by US veterans saying we are whinning ? US/SU veteran hypocrites.We get trolled on forums everyday, while they take full advantage of this system.  Squad 2.0 works only in the benefit of the underdog under populated factions, and they can muster all their clans against Axis randoms. We cannot play war till this system is fixed to be balanced, not just a easy mode for US and SU clans. This also is ultimate prove WHY axis clans we never able to field higher numbers of joining clan -veterans queing manualy, while all the US and SU clans were able to join just fine with 15+ veterans! Superb! Why should we keep playing wars as axis ? Why axis cannot win any kind of wars for almost 2 years now ? This explains just fine.

Thanks for showing this public Circinius

Edited

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GaiusBaltar    3,575
24 minutes ago, xJuliussx said:

This is absolutely terrible disavantageous for the over-populated Faction. This system is in place for over 3 years now, and in all this time was hidding and never explained to everyone to understand how it works. 

It gives a huge handicap to the overpopulated faction and to the clans who are queing for specific battles from overpopulated faction like AXIS!  And we get trolled by US veterans saying we are whinning ? US/SU veteran hypocrites.We get trolled on forums everyday, while they take full advantage of this system.  Squad 2.0 works only in the benefit of the underdog under populated factions, and they can muster all their clans against Axis randoms. We cannot play war till this system is fixed to be balanced, not just a easy mode for US and SU clans. This also is ultimate prove WHY axis clans we never able to field higher numbers of joining clan -veterans queing manualy, while all the US and SU clans were able to join just fine with 15+ veterans! Superb! Why should we keep playing wars as axis ? Why axis cannot win any kind of wars for almost 2 years now ? This explains just fine.

Thanks for showing this public Circinius

Axis randoms? Where's your clannie try-hards? In staged!! I agree with you on underdog bonus, it never was done right and only amounted to welfare for mostly SU who was free to turn that welfare into huge auto resolve armies that eventually killed the RTS into the state it is in now. Though you Axis lose alot of wars I'd gladly swap my AT's to your side because they actually play the battles and you used to be able to make good XP and WF from even losing battles. Under populated factions? Good luck getting people to play your AT's unless you have clan support. This is why I went from full time whale RTS general to casual herpa derp FPS player for the last year.

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xJuliussx    70
17 minutes ago, GaiusBaltar said:

Axis randoms? Where's your clannie try-hards? In staged!! I agree with you on underdog bonus, it never was done right and only amounted to welfare for mostly SU who was free to turn that welfare into huge auto resolve armies that eventually killed the RTS into the state it is in now. Though you Axis lose alot of wars I'd gladly swap my AT's to your side because they actually play the battles and you used to be able to make good XP and WF from even losing battles. Under populated factions? Good luck getting people to play your AT's unless you have clan support. This is why I went from full time whale RTS general to casual herpa derp FPS player for the last year.

Most of axis vets not playing because unbalanced - RTS is a punishment or they switched to US or SU. You know very well where are they. Congratz. you win 2 cents and play alone rts. 

Edited

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GaiusBaltar    3,575
32 minutes ago, xJuliussx said:

Most of axis vets not playing because unbalanced - RTS is a punishment or they switched to US or SU. You know very well where are they. Congratz. you win 2 cents and play alone rts. 

That would be ok if Reto awarded XP or WF on AR battles....

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xJuliussx    70
Just now, GaiusBaltar said:

That would be ok if Reto awarded XP or WF on AR battles....

'they got tons of good sugestion on the forum, they just need to look and pick the most that would work also in practice.

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2 hours ago, xJuliussx said:

'they got tons of good sugestion on the forum, they just need to look and pick the most that would work also in practice.

 

There was never any good suggesting in this forum, just saying...

 

You think the way the matchmaking works would specifically disadvantage GE because they are overpopulated exactly why? There are enough recons in US and SU queuing to make those battles pop. Only real disadvantage i see is that there are more wannabe generals pushing their 3 recon ats into the matches, making them pop and lost 

 

I see three possible solutions to that: 

1. Hard stop overpopulation (you can't join faction with most players when one otter faction got 25% bonus

2. Reduce recons and tanks (smaller ATs or lower stockpile/production)

3. Change matchmaking rule to 1. Infantry 2. One specialist class 3. Infantry again 4. On otter specialist class 5. Infantry again

4. (Bonus) remove specialist queueing from war matches (with armor 2.0 and token system everyone can use toys - so why not allow Infantry only and everyone who wants to play a specialist class can go to the war map, find a battle with the toys and queue for it)

 

However as 2 and 3 would lead to long queues for specialist, I guess we can no have it unless we get armor/recon only matches. 1 is a hard limits and @reto does not like hard limits. 4 is properly the best solution as it would lead to more ppl play Infantry; at the point where we get recon/tank maps it would be easier to find a specific match.

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Gerrit.    1,045
15 minutes ago, Lycrist_Katkiller said:

4. (Bonus) remove specialist queueing from war matches (with armor 2.0 and token system everyone can use toys - so why not allow Infantry only and everyone who wants to play a specialist class can go to the war map, find a battle with the toys and queue for it)

 

That would be great! No more specialists in war, just infantry and people switching temporarely to a specialist when the situation calls for it. (Or when they feel like being recon, which is rarely necessary... but can't stop them.)

 

3 hours ago, xJuliussx said:

This is absolutely terrible disavantageous for the over-populated Faction. This system is in place for over 3 years now, and in all this time was hidding and never explained to everyone to understand how it works. 

 

I think you're trying to see a bias where there is none. Please explain why these matchmaking rules are disadvantageous for the over-populated faction.

 

8 hours ago, Asgardian_Polizist said:

Have you ever consider the fact to add more Matchmaking Tiers ? Do you understand that Gold MM is easily accessible now and makes the game for the new player's literally unplayable ?

 

Why more tiers? Why not broaden the silver matchmaking tier so new players are in silver longer? Bronze is for the people totally new to the game, silver sounds like the place you want new players to be for longer, before they find a stronger opposition in gold.

 

But if you ask me, I think it's fine that new players get to know the 'real game' pretty soon after starting. No extra matchmaking tiers can completely prepare new players to fight people with all the equipment and thousands of hours into the game. And in my experience it was fun to enter gold matchmaking as new player. Yes, I did get killed a lot and it was frightening at times, but fun.

Edited

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Aust1n46    1,894
30 minutes ago, Gerrit. said:

 

That would be great! No more specialists in war, just infantry and people switching temporarely to a specialist when the situation calls for it. (Or when they feel like being recon, which is rarely necessary... but can't stop them.)

 

 

I think you're trying to see a bias where there is none. Please explain why these matchmaking rules are disadvantageous for the over-populated faction.

 

 

Why more tiers? Why not broaden the silver matchmaking tier so new players are in silver longer? Bronze is for the people totally new to the game, silver sounds like the place you want new players to be for longer, before they find a stronger opposition in gold.

 

But if you ask me, I think it's fine that new players get to know the 'real game' pretty soon after starting. No extra matchmaking tiers can completely prepare new players to fight people with all the equipment and thousands of hours into the game. And in my experience it was fun to enter gold matchmaking as new player. Yes, I did get killed a lot and it was frightening at times, but fun.

Should be like it was before.  Tier 0 and tier 1.  I personally had lots of fun back in Tier 0.  Infantry only battles against mostly low skilled players.  Possibly add an even lower tier with just bots.  It should take a decent while to reach Tier 1 just like it used to.  I had a fully modded G43 with a scope before I entered Tier 1 battles.  (Playing as a totally new player with no prior experience)

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55 minutes ago, Gerrit. said:

 

That would be great! No more specialists in war, just infantry and people switching temporarely to a specialist when the situation calls for it. (Or when they feel like being recon, which is rarely necessary... but can't stop them.)

 

 

no chance in stopping them. But more battles would pop because people would have to look for them and just queue infantry out of lazyness - OR they would play staged only (where they could still queue as special class) but ppl who play recon and tank exclusivly belong in staged anyways (unless we get armor/recon only maps)

 

Quote

I think you're trying to see a bias where there is none. Please explain why these matchmaking rules are disadvantageous for the over-populated faction.

 

The idea is that there are more recons/tankers/pilots/paras queuing so matches would fill up with more specialists

However in the current game meta having a tank with recons (And tanks) is enough to pop vs SU and any specialist class is sufficient to pop vs GE.

So there is some disadvantage - BUT not by game design but by choice (ppl - like him - choose to play GE, so tough luck). Rules should not be changed only because every noob want to play GE after he got sealclubbed in staged by guess whom...

 

The real deal actually is this: GE simply does not attack, so they get pushed back and the afk-recon and afk-tank ATs are played in every match

Edited

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Gerrit.    1,045
9 hours ago, Lycrist_Katkiller said:

The idea is that there are more recons/tankers/pilots/paras queuing so matches would fill up with more specialists

 

When you have more people, you wouldn't just have more recons/tankers/pilots/paras, but also more infantry. Only when the ratio between specialists and infantry changes this system will be slightly slower for one of those two groups.

 

So no, I don't think this system is biased against the overpopulated faction. It however may be biased against the faction with an abundance of players of a certain specialist class because of overpowered tanks.

 

 

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megaman_    920

GE "hard to join specific battle" problem shouldn't be hard to fix

You need to add one more factor

"Until you queue on a single war mission (not any of WAR, using matchmaker)  you get maximum

On 03.08.2018 at 10:23 AM, Reto.Circinus said:

amount of 'priority points'

INSTANTLY with out additional softening up"

If you leave this queue you have you points back to normal.

 

Edited

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2 hours ago, Gerrit. said:

 

When you have more people, you wouldn't just have more recons/tankers/pilots/paras, but also more infantry. Only when the ratio between specialists and infantry changes this system will be slightly slower for one of those two groups.

 

So no, I don't think this system is biased against the overpopulated faction. It however may be biased against the faction with an abundance of players of a certain specialist class because of overpowered tanks.

 

Well yes. But see:

Faction A has 5 Inf, 1 Recon, 1 Tank in Queue

A match starts and the matchmaker will be like: Inf, Recon, Tank, Inf, Inf, Inf, Inf = 15 Infantry, 2 Recon, 2 Tanks

Faction B has 10 Inf, 2 Recon, 2 Tanks in Queue

A match starts and the matchmaker will be like: Inf, Recon, Tank, Inf, Recon, Tank, Inf, Inf = 12 Infantry, 4 Recon, 4 Tanks

 

However: As there are (during prime time) enough recons and tankers queuing on all factions, you can easily pop matches against all faction. GE faction is defending most of the time and that's why in almost every match there are recons and tanks while pushing SU vets wont put specialists in matches

Edit: Well actually GE is attacking quite a lot currently, but the my point stays valid: you wont find a single battle without specialists, too many wannabe generals pushing there 2 recon ATs into the matches

Edited

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Gerrit.    1,045
26 minutes ago, Lycrist_Katkiller said:

too many wannabe generals pushing there 2 recon ATs into the matches

 

Guilty

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.cyn.    18

i say it best,when i say nothing at all.

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xJuliussx    70
21 hours ago, Gerrit. said:

 

I think you're trying to see a bias where there is none. Please explain why these matchmaking rules are disadvantageous for the over-populated faction.

 

 

 

The matchmaker will then prioritize to represent each resource type in that battle. After it picked the Infantry squad, it will pick a Squad of a different resource type, so it will pick a tanker squad, after which it will again pick a Squad of a different resource type, in this case a Recon Squad, after which it will pick the Paratrooper Squad. Once the cycle is completed, it will pick a new infantry squad with the highest priority. It will continue to cycle and select squads of different resource types until the match is filled.

 

More population= more recon, tank, para squads and secondaries, tertiaries, etc  Infantry squads gets   lower priority.

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Gerrit.    1,045
1 hour ago, xJuliussx said:

 

More population= more recon, tank, para squads and secondaries, tertiaries, etc  Infantry squads gets   lower priority.

 

Infantry squads only get lower priority if you assume more population means that the ratio between specialists and infantry changes.

 

Double the population could just means there's double the amount of infantry and double the amount of specialists, in which case infantry doesn't get lower priority.

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