Submachinegun Tiers

[AfonsoQQ 3,011]

Right now this is my first draft.

I want to have a specific drum tier (Tier 3) So every faction gets a drum.

A tier for the current top SMGs (Tier 2)

And the first tier for the starter SMGs.

 

I dont really know if theres a possibility of replacing the PPD-40 with a PPD-38 with a 25 round mag, that would be way more noob friendly and make the tiers more balanced.

Or just keep the PPD-40 with a buff. 

 

The reason why Germany gets the Suomi KP/31 is because Germany imported 3000 of these from the Fins, and Germany did not have drum SMGs

(the other possible candidate would be the MP-40/I but that still isnt a drum and would just be another MP-40 with complicated mechanics and animations)

Heres some pics of the Suomi in german use:

Spoiler

 

 

@Reto.Christiano

Edited April 6, 2018

[aleksi134 173]

I wouldnt say 3000 kp31s is alot if you look at the grand scale, thats about the same amount as MKB 42 were deployed. Anyhow im sure Germans had more PPSH to use than KP31 of course this goes to the captured weapon territory but then again so does the kp31 pretty much, if Finnish faction ever got introduced.

[AfonsoQQ 3,011]

37 minutes ago, aleksi134 said:

I wouldnt say 3000 kp31s is alot if you look at the grand scale, thats about the same amount as MKB 42 were deployed. Anyhow im sure Germans had more PPSH to use than KP31 of course this goes to the captured weapon territory but then again so does the kp31 pretty much, if Finnish faction ever got introduced.

Im pretty sure Finland would end up as a subfaction of Germany since they had a pact. so.

The Thompson M1928 would prob be shared by the brits aswell.

 

The main thing here is: Its not captured, its an imported weapon.

Then again we already have lendlease bazookas and americans using RGDs.

[BrandonSolo10 3,562]

I will elaborate more on my suggested idea later, but an equally good choice for the German Tier 3 submachine gun position would be the captured PPSh-41 chambered in 7.63x25mm Mauser (which was effectively identical to the 7.62x25mm Tokarev).

[AfonsoQQ 3,011]

9 hours ago, BrandonSolo10 said:

I will elaborate more on my suggested idea later, but an equally good choice for the German Tier 3 submachine gun position would be the captured PPSh-41 chambered in 7.63x25mm Mauser (which was effectively identical to the 7.62x25mm Tokarev).

The Maschinenpistole 717(r) is nothing but that, a captured PPSh-41, and that wouldnt be the ideal choice just because of that.

 

There is also PPSh-41 converted into 9mm , but it uses a MP-40 stick mag, the MP-41(r)

 

At least the Suomi was imported.

Edited April 7, 2018

[aleksi134 173]

On 7.4.2018 at 2:57 PM, AfonsoQQ said:

The Maschinenpistole 717(r) is nothing but that, a captured PPSh-41, and that wouldnt be the ideal choice just because of that.

 

There is also PPSh-41 converted into 9mm , but it uses a MP-40 stick mag, the MP-41(r)

 

At least the Suomi was imported.

The M712 could be classified aswell as sub machine gun almost as it has stock and it could have a larger magazine. There is italian sub machine guns aswell, beretta 38/42,44. There is aswell some czech sub machine guns but only used by SS, but i doubt this would be a issue considering what we have in the game.

[AfonsoQQ 3,011]

4 minutes ago, aleksi134 said:

The M712 could be classified aswell as sub machine gun almost as it has stock and it could have a larger magazine. There is italian sub machine guns aswell, beretta 38/42,44. There is aswell some czech sub machine guns but only used by SS, but i doubt this would be a issue considering what we have in the game.

My idea tho is giving a drum to everyone.

[BrandonSolo10 3,562]

3 hours ago, aleksi134 said:

The M712 could be classified aswell as sub machine gun almost as it has stock and it could have a larger magazine. There is italian sub machine guns aswell, beretta 38/42,44. There is aswell some czech sub machine guns but only used by SS, but i doubt this would be a issue considering what we have in the game.

 

The MAB-38A ought to be left to the Italians.

[_Finnish_Gamemaster_ 2,256]

8 hours ago, BrandonSolo10 said:

 

The MAB-38A ought to be left to the Italians.

Waiting for threads saying that MAB-38A is OP compared to any other SMG

[BrandonSolo10 3,562]

I know this thread is rather old, but I have finally found a potential candidate for the German Tier 3 submachine gun...

 

The Czech ZK-383, of which a few thousand were produced for the Waffen-SS:

 

 

It is considered one of the best submachine guns of the interwar years (i.e. during a time period when SMGs were manufactured to astonishingly high standards), right alongside the Austrian MP-34(ö) and the Italian MAB-38A, and it does have some unique features that would justify its potential as a Tier 3 SMG, such as a small bipod and a RoF-altering weight that, while changed not by a simple switch, but by field stripping the weapon, allowed the ZK-383 to go from a low of ~450 RPM (with the bolt weight) to a high of ~750 RPM (without the bolt weight)). Now, while the RoF-altering process is highly complicated and virtually impossible in a combat situation (since one needs to perform a complete field strip just to access the bolt weight), it was still leagues better (and infinitely less expensive and complicated) compared to having to order a custom bolt (or using a heavily used up bolt) to change up the RoF.

 

It's quite an oddity, and not a particularly well-known firearm (definitely not on the MAB 38A's scale) , it's definitely something to consider.

Edited August 13, 2018

[Jacky95 2,354]

On 2018. 08. 13. at 5:09 AM, BrandonSolo10 said:

 

 gib gib

[BrandonSolo10 3,562]

Come to think of it, a three-tier submachine gun tree seems relatively workable, although I'll have to compare weapons to eachother and formulate roles for 'em.

 

Submachine guns really need to be brought back as the most common (and most user-friendly) automatic weapon, just like how SMGs were in the Second World War.

Edited August 18, 2018

[_Finnish_Gamemaster_ 2,256]

Here's a new video from Forgotten weapons about the Suomi 

 

[BrandonSolo10 3,562]

11 minutes ago, _Finnish_Gamemaster_ said:

Here's a new video from Forgotten weapons about the Suomi 

 

 

The Suomi is most certainly a good submachine gun, despite the excessive praise often surrounding it.

 

It's a slightly more controllable, but slightly lower RoF PPSh-41, basically.

[aleksi134 173]

4 hours ago, BrandonSolo10 said:

 

The Suomi is most certainly a good submachine gun, despite the excessive praise often surrounding it.

 

It's a slightly more controllable, but slightly lower RoF PPSh-41, basically.

The controllability is what people praise it for. Compared to the PPSh it makes a big difference. Hence multiple people during the war used it to mow down russians at low to mid ranges.

[Rudolf-rudy-Zetsberger 269]

The GE line up would be better in this:

 

1.- Mp-34

2.-Mp-41

3.-Mp- 40

 

Can't see Finnish gun in the GE smg line. Leave it to the sub-faction thing ( if it ever happen ).

 

Regards

Rudy

[_Finnish_Gamemaster_ 2,256]

1 hour ago, Rudolf-rudy-Zetsberger said:

The GE line up would be better in this:

 

1.- Mp-34

2.-Mp-41

3.-Mp- 40

 

Can't see Finnish gun in the GE smg line. Leave it to the sub-faction thing ( if it ever happen ).

 

Regards

Rudy

I'd still rather find something else than the MP41 since it's almost the same as MP40.

[BrandonSolo10 3,562]

5 hours ago, Rudolf-rudy-Zetsberger said:

The GE line up would be better in this:

 

1.- Mp-34

2.-Mp-41

3.-Mp- 40

 

Can't see Finnish gun in the GE smg line. Leave it to the sub-faction thing ( if it ever happen ).

 

Regards

Rudy

 

The MP41 is an MP40 with a wooden stock, virtually no difference between them.

[GermanSoldier 3,795]

On 9/9/2018 at 9:35 PM, BrandonSolo10 said:

 

The MP41 is an MP40 with a wooden stock, virtually no difference between them.

 

The Mp41 is an Mp28 evolution, actually pretty big difference

[BrandonSolo10 3,562]

4 hours ago, GermanSoldier said:

 

The Mp41 is an Mp28 evolution, actually pretty big difference

 

Considering that virtually every German submachine gun before the end of the Second World War is a descendant of the original MP18...

 

Not really, no.