RadicalEdward2

Ways to Fix Mountain Town Assault (images and notes included)

Recommended Posts

RadicalEdward2    1,889

As a disclaimer, I'm making these threads in hopes of showing the developers that the Heroes and Generals community care as much about their game as they do. Rather than simply venting about issues with the game, I wanted to go the extra mile by creating visual references that could help Reto-Moto's team further evaluate issues with the current build of the game while also offering a variety of different ways to fix the issues.

Previously, I made posts on how to fix Factory and Town but, after being burnt-out of ever wanting to play Mountain Town (as the attacker) ever again, I thought it was time to give a long and detailed evaluation on how to make it a bit more playable.

D LINE

The first area on the agenda is D3. There were so many notes that I had to make two versions of the image. One with the existing flaws of D3 and suggestions on how to fix it AND one I completely redesigned myself.

Mountain%20Town%20D3%20Notes%201_zpsjp1v5n1j.png~original

If you have difficulty reading the text, here's a link to the full sized version of the image:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i118/MandalorianGuard/Mountain%20Town%20D3%20Notes%201_zpsjp1v5n1j.png~original

The very first aspect I want to cover regarding D3 is the defender spawn area. If anyone is a shameless spawn camper, they know exactly what I'm going to be addressing.

Attacking forces (TANKS INCLUDED) can actually camp on the small hill to the left of D3 and fire straight into the D3 defender spawning area. To prove it, here's a screenshot of me standing on the hill looking straight at the spawn area.

20161031150324_1_zpsvxxtu08u.jpg~original

In my notes on the image, I mentioned possibly heightening the wall that lines the town block. The last match I played on Mountain Town, I died literally 2 seconds after spawning because a Chaffee was just firing straight into the spawn zone and killing players the moment they gained visibility.

Attackers can also sit on the 2nd floor of the corner building before the bridge and snipe defenders as the spawn (happened the same match as the Chaffee incident). The only way that can be fixed (before you see my revision) is by closing all the windows and doors of that building that face towards the spawn area.

There's also a issue of the terrain around D3. What's the deal with that? (and airline food!) The guard post leading to D3 is probably the least secure capture point I've ever seen. The ground is so high that attackers can hop over either of the two corner walls of D3. There is a breach in the wall to the side but, it serves ZERO purpose because people just enter D3 from the corners of the perimeter because the dirt is elevated to high. Obvious solution, lower the terrain at the corners of D3's perimeter walls.

I won't spend anymore time restating what I typed on the screenshot so you can read through the notes there.

-------

Here's my revised version of D3 which also addresses the main way to fix D Line in it's entirety as well (mountains).

Mountain%20Town%20D3%20Revisions%201_zpshrapxmby.png~original

If you have difficulty reading the text, here's a link to the full sized version of the image:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i118/MandalorianGuard/Mountain%20Town%20D3%20Revisions%201_zpshrapxmby.png~original

Going back to the issue with D3 defender's spawn area, rather than walling off the spawn area, I made an entirely new area using assets I know already exist in-game in order to keep my proposals within the realm of possibility in the event the devs notice this.

I decided to make an entire police headquarters for D3 defenders that would not only provide protection from camping tanks and snipers but, also, create some story as to why the defenders spawn there. To do that, I thought of creating a small headquarters with a gatehouse identical to the one found in Town Assault and used it as an actual gateway in and out of the defender spawn zone for both infantry and vehicles. To prevent tankers from firing at vehicles spawning in the garage, I proposed closing all the outward facing garage doors. The garage itself shields a good portion of the spawn area from attacker projectiles as well. At the same time, it also keeps the spawning forces hidden until they exit through the gatehouse's passageway.

To further protect spawning units, I also placed two of the interconnecting homes along left side with a smaller building in between (it's supposed to be the old Police Station Panzerfaust spawn building from Town Assault). To protect spawners from tankers across river on E Line, I placed two sets of the fuel tanks that were present in the BETA build of Mountain Town's station. Lastly, to counter attackers from firing into the spawn area from the depot building outside the area, I placed one of the 2-floor tavern houses.

The entire spawn area's outer perimeter is walled off and not climbable like the rest of the town block and spawn protected to prevent curious attackers from walking in to mine it.

The D3 offensive spawn area was too close to D3. D2 Attackers should not spawn too close to D3 so I moved their spawn a bit further back since it was also out in the open.

One major change I think you all probably noticed (hopefully), is the mountains. I made mountains. For some reason, Mountain Town is kind of mountain-less. I never understood why but, the mountains got smaller and smaller with each iteration of the map. Apparently, before the BETA version most of us had come to know, Mountain Town looked like this:

Heroes-Generals-Mountain-Town-Bild3_zpsb2zkiqon.jpg~original

I added mountains all over the map but, at the same time, I'm hoping the mountains tops can have some sort of barrier to prevent snipers and tanks from camping on them (which they already do on the one next to D1). Hearing the accounts of community members from the earlier builds of the game, I learned that the mountains were removed because there wasn't a way to implement protective barriers yet in order to stop players from sniping atop of the the mountains.

Adding some sort of soft kill zone with a timer around the tops of the mountains ranges should fix the issue. Seeing as a disarming mechanic was implemented with the new (albeit broken) spawn zone protection mechanic, adding restrictions to the top of mountain ranges shouldn't be out of the question.

TRAIN STATION

It's also been addressed in devstream #81 that the old station building is coming back in the next update. I took the liberty of reinstating the paved loading area in the "front" in it's entirety. I included an opening in the ball wall for spawning defenders to walk through in order to save the defending faction the trouble of improvising ways to scale the wall before the Capture Point is compromised.

MountainTown1_zps203e1cd1.pngoriginal_zpsdywarck0.png~original

-------

E LINE

E Line is definitely a frustrating mess in its own way.

Most E Line attempts end with E1 being camped from virtually every direction. On top of that, it's not that very easy on the eyes because of how little scenery surrounds it. E Line is plagued with large open areas and dangerously exposed spawn locations.

Mountain%20Town%20E%20Line%20Revisions%201_zpsiyx9kqfi.png~original

If you have difficulty reading the text, here’s a link to the full sized version of the image:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i118/MandalorianGuard/Mountain%20Town%20E%20Line%20Revisions%201_zpsiyx9kqfi.png~original

To remove most of the open space around E1 and E2, I surrounded the points with a large mountain range. The mountain range should stop the defending faction from driving APCs around the hill that divides E1 and E2 and parking behind the E1 house or spawn camping E1's defensive spawn area.

I left a small narrow backpath behind the hill as an alternate path of tankers spawning at E1 to travel to E3 and onward. At the same time, the lower section of the mountain fills in the large empty grass area to the right of E1; effectively removing one of the popular tank spawn camping locations.

I also fleshed out the dividing hill with grass and trees to do away with the completely exposed rocky side facing towards E2. The trees I added should make E2 a more interesting location for firefights and encourage infantry to venture down the hill instead of camping at the top. The cluster of trees on the hill should also discourage tankers from sitting on top of the hill and firing down on E2 and E3. It won't 100% guarantee they will try to park on the top of the hill but, it will make their attempts to senselessly shell E2 and E3 a bit more challenging.

I lined the road by the E1 offensive attacker spawn with bushes so provide some form of cover from defender tankers hoping to spam fire into the E1 offensive attacker spawn. In the current build of the E Line, tankers like to park on the hills surrounding the E1 offensive spawn to camp, so the bushes should give spawners a bit of a chance to safely enter combat without being blown away within the first 5 seconds of playing.

The mountain to the south of E line should stop tankers from "sniping" tanks participating on D Line (this actually happens).

I added hedge lines to E3's defender offensive spawn area to stop attackers from spawn camping the location.

I also expanded E3 by extending the platform and adding a barrack. Seeing as the capture point was intended to serve as a security checkpoint, it would make sense for there to be a sleeping area for soldiers assigned to that post (E3).

I also added some open empty cattle cars (similar to the one in the old BETA station) because the tracks didn't seem very lively but, at the same time, it would allow snipers to set up in places other than E3's house or guard hut. Overall, E3 is extremely open and most players don't even bother stepping too far from the two buildings on the platforms in fear of being shot on sight. Whenever players weren't inside the buildings, they would be hiding behind the inaccessible house next to the rocket box.

The area north of E3 is extremely barren and also fell victim to ugly stone hill-syndrome. I thought adding a thick wooded areas and hedge lines would help.

Most important of all, I addressed that the hit detection on railroads are too strong. I have never seen a single vehicle cross them with a consistent speed OR their health bar intact. Trying to drive over the tracks stops all forms of vehicles in their tracks and inflicts roughly 1/4 damage to the vehicle's health. The hit detection for the tracks can be best compared to crashing a vehicle into a unbreakable obstacle (like a tree) at maximum speed. I can't really do much about that but, it needs fixing before the next update.

I do have revisions for the other Lines as well but, I'm going to leave it at this for now because this post is getting too long.

------

You can find my posts on how to fix Factory and Town below:

Ways to Fix Factory

Ways to Fix Town

Ways to Fix Airfield

I also run a thread where I post my designs for new map concepts which I update on a regular basis:

New Map Concepts

 

Edited
Fixed broken links

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I want you to recommend some changes to C line (I think it's C line, the line to the right of D, if looking from D1 to the center OBJs).

Right now, almost impossible to attack from C line, because you have to go down the hill.

At the bottom of the hill is the enemy spawn, so they spawn looking up the hill.

This is a problem for attackers: the flow of enemies, and a potential to be spawn camped by the defenders.

The spawn is a bit too close to the fuel depot, which means unless you got guys spawncamping them, they just flood right into the depot, making it too easy to defend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RadicalEdward2    1,889

I just hope they bring back more than just the main building in the update. The lack of the "front" parking area looks really awkward. All enemies do now is crash their jeeps and trucks into the "front" steps and run in the house. Wasn't the point of the walled perimeter in the old build to prevent that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RadicalEdward2    1,889

I made revisions for A Line and B Line.

A LINE

Mountain%20Town%20A%20Line%20Revisions%201_zpseljgczuj.png~original

If you're having trouble reading the text, click the link below for the large version:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i118/MandalorianGuard/Mountain%20Town%20A%20Line%20Revisions%201_zpseljgczuj.png~original

A Line suffered from similar problems that plagued A Line in the BETA version of Mountain Town. Overall, there was just too much open space in between A1 to A3 that made it just merciless when playing as the attackers and it didn't seem like anything was learned when this version of A Line was made (considering A1's spawn is literally out in the open).

I added trees to the A1 offensive attacker spawn area to decrease the likelihood of spawn campers while also giving attackers a chance to sneak towards A2. To further back that up, I moved the A2 defenders defensive spawn over to the right of A2. To give the spawn zone some backstory, I included another one of the large mine shaft doors up against the mountain side (like the mine doors that used to be in the Factory Assault).

To stop A1 spawn camping, I replaced the hill that was to the right of A1 and A2 with a steep mountain (too steep to climb). The hill between A1 and A2 is still present but, it's now part of the foot of the mountain. I also covered the A1 defensive spawn with hedges to give spawning attackers more coverage.

To help further assist A1's offensive spawn area (the one next to shed), I moved A3's defensive spawn area over to the right in a small village area I added to fill in the open grassy area next to the A3 railway checkpoint. I thought it didn't make much sense to have defenders and attackers spawning next to each other with just a cluster of trees between them.

I thought adding more town houses would help the maps namesake because right now, it doesn't have a lot of "town" or "mountains" either.

If anyone is wondering why I'm so keen on adding mine shaft tunnel doors to Mountain Town, it's because I wanted to give off the impression that the mountains are littered with underground mining facilities and research labs like the ones hyped about in a lot of the old WW2 documentaries and shooters. We'll never see what's inside the tunnels but, the idea alone makes the map a bit more exciting.

------

B LINE

Mountain%20Town%20B%20Line%20Revisions%201_zpslrrccm4r.png~original

If you're having trouble reading the text, click the link below for the large version:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i118/MandalorianGuard/Mountain%20Town%20B%20Line%20Revisions%201_zpslrrccm4r.png~original

Some people mentioned that there was a lot of open space on B Line and some of C Line so I fixed that. I placed a large mountain to stop B Line forces from interfering with C Line. I never understood why tankers from B Line would travel all the way to fire at C Line. Sure, it made for easy targets but, the mountain placement should encourage forces to stick to their respective Lines.

B2 in it's current state is really ambush prone but, not in the way that defenders would be ambushing attackers that were approaching. Despite having high ground advantage and a fortified bridge, defenders still had a lot of tension dealing with attackers sneaking up the hill sides.

To make the bridge less ambush prone by attackers, I turned the upper right hill section of the train bridge into an elevated cliff for snipers and machine gunners to creep on B1 attackers and intentionally become a nuisance. At the same time, I made the shortcut up to the top of the bridge a bit more obvious by connecting the dirt road by the shed to the road that abruptly ended next to the train tracks.

To help attackers from B1 cope with snipers and machine gunners perched on the cliff edge, I added a series of rocks and boulders along the sides of the road leading through the bridge below.

On both of the lower sides of the bridge, I added a second row of sandbags because I just thought it would look nice. Overall, I added a lot more sandbag placements make the bridge look more like a fortification with strategic value; as if having the bridge destroyed would hurt a supply route. The sandbags set up all over the top were meant to make the capture-able area atop of the bridge look less exposed. Just having a lone cart and some sandbags in the middle of the bridge doesn't exactly scream "important location" as much as a fully decked out arrangement of sandbags.

I also got rid of the vast open area next to B2 by fleshing out the B2 defender spawn area. Not only was the defender spawn barren but, also susceptible to having spawners immediately shot by attackers that were already capping the bridge. B2 defender spawn area is now a small encampment complete with tents, sandbag walls, and multiple exit paths for defenders wishing to fan out to other contested areas either on C Line or B Line.

Behind the B2 defender spawn camp site, there's a small series of ridged vehicle-friendly pathways leading to both the top of the bridge and to C1. The pathway not only fills in the empty hillside between C Line and B Line but, it also stops tankers from easily parking outside of the reach of C Line's force.

The pathway should also lead to some interesting APC-based gameplay. Rather than parking out in an obvious area (like behind the C3 barn), C Line attackers can park on the ridge behind B2's spawn encampment where they would least expect it.

I also fleshed out B3 by adding more buildings like the single floor house (the one with the bathroom). I also thought it would be nice to include yet another cabbage patch (similar to the one I made for Town Assault's D Line) as a sort of reference to how the old 02 Lines used to be surrounded with rye and wheat fields. I even added a garage across the road from it as additional cover from tankers and recon camping out on B2's hill.

I think these notes should cover all of the changes need to be made to Mountain Town. At the same time, I kind of wished the made the old Mountain Town into it's own separate map so there would be an extra map for the game's roster (Mountain Town 1 and Mountain Town 2).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Reto.Desji    618

You have many great points, and many of your thoughts echo my own. Thank you for putting in the effort in visualizing your thoughts about this map, and the others (I read all the threads).

If I may provide some explanation for some of our current tech limitations that have impact on what solutions are available.

1. Terrain Steepness:

Many areas could benefit from steeper terrain to block movement, line of sight and create more mountainous backgrounds, However our current terrain system tessellates aggressively over distance for performance reasons which means that even a slightly steep edge which is visible over distance will cause floating players, aggressive texture stretching and visible deformation of the terrain. This is why the only really steep areas of the map (like B2) are hidden from long distance line of sight and blocked by custom geometry. Right now our system really doesn't support steep terrain at all.

Going forward there is a wish to upgrade our terrain system with custom geometry cliff edges that can provide these blockers, however that is probably still quite a ways away from becoming reality. So currently we have to level design without steep terrain.

2. Amount of trees:

The amount of trees is currently closely tied into performance, which means we have to limit the amount of trees we put in the map. The temptation is to plaster the map with trees to provide cover for players, however we have to be very careful with how many trees we use.

On the plus side there are already vast performance upgrades to the trees in the pipeline. So hopefully in the future we can be a little more liberal with using trees to provide cover and for immersive background graphics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RadicalEdward2    1,889
You have many great points, and many of your thoughts echo my own. Thank you for putting in the effort in visualizing your thoughts about this map, and the others (I read all the threads).

If I may provide some explanation for some of our current tech limitations that have impact on what solutions are available.

1. Terrain Steepness:

Many areas could benefit from steeper terrain to block movement, line of sight and create more mountainous backgrounds, However our current terrain system tessellates aggressively over distance for performance reasons which means that even a slightly steep edge which is visible over distance will cause floating players, aggressive texture stretching and visible deformation of the terrain. This is why the only really steep areas of the map (like B2) are hidden from long distance line of sight and blocked by custom geometry. Right now our system really doesn’t support steep terrain at all.

Going forward there is a wish to upgrade our terrain system with custom geometry cliff edges that can provide these blockers, however that is probably still quite a ways away from becoming reality. So currently we have to level design without steep terrain.

2. Amount of trees:

The amount of trees is currently closely tied into performance, which means we have to limit the amount of trees we put in the map. The temptation is to plaster the map with trees to provide cover for players, however we have to be very careful with how many trees we use.

On the plus side there are already vast performance upgrades to the trees in the pipeline. So hopefully in the future we can be a little more liberal with using trees to provide cover and for immersive background graphics.

Wow. Thanks for the input desji! I really appreciate that you shed some light on the situation. At the same time, until the game is re-worked to handle more foliage, I do believe some of the clusters of trees can be relocated to areas of the map more prone to combat. For example, the trees on the edge of the map in the far north of the map (almost outside the map), those trees can probably be relocated to either A1's defensive and/or offensive spawn area or the previously mentioned hill dividing E1 and E2.

Hopefully, once the engine is reworked to handle more objects, we can see more much needed cover between capture points.

Seeing as you mentioned a wish to revamp the engine to incorporate more cliff edges, that would definitely be something I think the entire community would look forward to. Of course, it will probably take some time to implement but, it's definitely worth the wait.

As for the floating players caused by the render distance, I have noticed that a lot on D Line. Tanks have a bad tendency to use the hilltop next to D1 to fire straight into D3 and 01 (if the tanker is crazy enough). Maybe some day we could see more mountains like in the early screenshots of the game. I also agree that, eventually adding mountains to divide the assault lines is something worth adding to the agenda for the future. Of course, the steepness aspect will have to be looked into.

On another note, I hope you had a chance to check out my other notes for fixing Mountain Town, Town, and Factory. I saw that some of my ideas shared some similarities to mine and I thought that was amazing! Needs a bit more work but, amazing nonetheless.

I also had plans on posting a revised mockup of the 02 depot in the coming days and I would love to hear your input.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mathyrium    18

Really good post and Ideas!

Sadly they just need to put this ugly map in the garbage and bring the old one with all classic Spawn point how it used to be (on the actual point).

It will fix 95% of attac and spawn problem. Because with those heavy modification made since launche, they just started the balancing from scratch... instead of keeping all the work they had.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RadicalEdward2    1,889
Really good post and Ideas!

Sadly they just need to put this ugly map in the garbage and bring the old one with all classic Spawn point how it used to be (on the actual point).

It will fix 95% of attac and spawn problem. Because with those heavy modification made since launche, they just started the balancing from scratch… instead of keeping all the work they had.

I wouldn't say they should completely remove the maps. Instead they should add the pre-Garman builds as maps to the roster in order to add more variety to the map selections. Sure, the old versions will need some tweaks but, it would at least add more content to the game.

As additions to the already present maps, they should bring back the Hill Skirmish, Forest Skirmish, that trench map that was removed (see link below), and the old version of Mountain Town.

The old version of Mountain Town is different enough from the new version that it could probably be reinstated as Mountain Town 1 (renaming the current one as Mountain Town 2). The BETA build of Mountain Town did have some issues but, it can definitely be reworked different ways contrary to how the current Mountain Town was redesigned.

The old Hill Skirmish and Forest Skirmish are also different enough from their Garman successors that they could be reinstated as additional maps.

------

As for that trench map I mentioned:

https://heroesandgenerals.com/2011/11/war-in-the-trenches/

Supposedly this map was removed because the devs though trench warfare wouldn't be fun (according to speculation from veteran players). With the release of Battlefield 1, it's become apparent that players actually do enjoy trench combat.

I actually discovered the trench map article when I was looking for references for my map revisions. I'll admit, I'm honestly impressed by the amount of work that went into designing the trench map.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RadicalEdward2    1,889

In conjunction to the release of the Hallowes update, here's my revised version of the 02 depot. All of the changes are pretty straight forward so I won't elaborate too much on them. I hadn't played the iteration of the map featured in the Hallowes update when I made this so its subject to change.

Mountain%20Town%2002%20Revisions%201_zpsn05mqpv6.png~original

If you’re having trouble reading the text, click the link below for the large version:

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i118/MandalorianGuard/Mountain%20Town%2002%20Revisions%201_zpsn05mqpv6.png~original

Having played the Hallows version of the map, I really like what was done in order to fix the capture points and objectives. At the same time, I still think the 01 Station should have the "front" parking area like it did in the BETA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RadicalEdward2    1,889

So I'm finally back with another bit of feedback. I'm still refining the revision I just previously posted with even more ideas but, for now, here's a big issue that I've seen firsthand since October.

@Reto.Desji

 

I actually went out of my way to make a 3D model of the spawn camping issue. Keep in mind, I didn't put in EVERY little detail (mass groups of trees) because I don't need to show every bit of vegetation to illustrate the issue here.

 

The "hill range" needs work. There needs to be more obstructions like trees and rocks and bushes.

In this screenshot I marked all of the places I've seen enemy tanks park (all in just one match).

Tank%20Spawn%20Issue%201_zpsrchwnoif.png

 

I noticed in the post-Hallowes update, there was a garage added to the corner of 02. That garage is almost never offered as a tank spawn option and when it is, it gives such a bad initial blind spot that it in a match where both factions have tanks, it's like lambs to the slaughter.

Tank%20Spawn%20Issue%203_zpsmqgbu7oz.png

 

Here's a view from the enemy vantage point. I know I didn't put in all the trees but, that doesn't mean they can't fire HE rounds into spawn from there.

Tank%20Spawn%20Issue%202_zps2atrlks8.png

 

Enemy tanks, APCs, IFVs, and infantry also like to camp behind the 02 spawn. Sure the restaurant/tavern-thing provides some coverage but, it's not enough to really matter.

Tank%20Spawn%20Issue%204_zpshvyhwlue.png

 

There are also enemy tankers that are just insane enough to drive all the way around the map from A line to the "unavailable" D Line hills to camp. The lengths some players go to spawn camp make it difficult for me to believe these tankers are even human.

Tank%20Spawn%20Issue%205_zpseyfyeuyt.png

 

I would also like to thank @Sjf0212 for going through the frustration of having his King Tiger destroyed inches out of the 02 spawn gate countless times. Had I not participated in the match that those instances took place, I wouldn't have ever thought of addressing how much of an issue the (now several months old)  "new" spawn system really was.

 

Also, here's a screenshot of a player that parked his car behind the spawn, tank rambo'd, and killed several spawning infantry that were unlucky enough to try shooting him without a plan. The only reason I have this screenshot is because I was floored by how much players were exploiting the limited number of spawn locations.

20161125014301_1_zpsk7rqtarj.jpg

 

What needs to be done is, make SOME (and ONLY some) spawn areas "weapons disabled" for enemies. The some spawn zones I'm referring to are the enclosed ones like 02's closest spawn area, the Skirmish spawn areas, etc. Also, just remove all notifications of entering deploy zones please? Telling enemies where their enemies would be spawn was the first big mistake.

Entering%20Enemy%20Deploy%20Zone_zpsoajp

 

------------

 

On a less serious note, I wanted to address an issue that was bothering me from an aesthetic point-of-view.

Why so much pavement? :(

20170105211358_1_zps6h8bvs7v.jpg

20170105211349_1_zpstk86sslj.jpg

 

Why not pretty up the riverfront properties with stuff like grass, dirt, more noticeable garden patches with some of the old flower sprites from Builds-long-passed. Maybe even add a non-Boreal tree or two (not pine or Norfolk or spruce but maybe Oaks and Alders like from old Mountain Town). Up the property value a bit!

 

Also, desji, (if you're still reading this), check out my level design post. I update it regularly with both hand-drawn designs and 3D modeled designs. I think you'll like what you see. I'd love to get some of your critiques on my work.

New Map Concepts

Edited

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sjf0212    603

You rang, @RadicalEdward2? Oh, to tell the story of that mountain town match? Okay...

 

The O2 spawn on Mountain Town is nothing less than a death trap. You have 2 and a half exits, one of which requires you to go up and around D line to get back to O2, so it's not really an exit, while the half-exit requires you to know the necessary parkour to jump over the wall to the right. For tanks and other vehicles, however, there is only one way out, right out the front gate. In the match Edward is describing, I was the only tanker while our team was defending B and C lines. The enemy had 3 or 4 tankers, and for the first half of the match it was a pretty nice game, with me taking down 4 or 5 tanks until the Sticky Rambos caught up to me. After that first death, the real "fun" started. There were multiple mines in front of the only exit out of the O2 spawn, which I found out the hard way. The next life, I hopped out of my tank and shot the mines, then hopped back in and had just started the engine as my tank took shells from a Pershing that had crossed the far bridge to A line and was watching that single spawn exit from the far side of the river. After a small under-the-breath rant about the "beardless,bootlicking scumbags and their filthy spawn-watching", I respawned and located the Pershing and had just taken my first shot when another tank hit me in the rear. He was on the small hill in between C3 and D3, looking into our spawn.

 

To put this into perspective, the rest of both teams were still fighting over C2 and B2. How those tanks got past, I'm not sure. But they were at my tank spawn, and that was a problem.

 

After finishing off the A line Pershing, dying to the hill tank, respawning, and killing that same hill tank that hadn't moved, I was repairing my tank in spawn when I heard the double plinks of H3's on the opposite side of my tank. The same infantry who had placed the mines out by the only exit had now slithered into our spawn to stick H3's on my tank. By the time I managed to share him down, as he had only H3's, mines, and a bazooka, the other two tanks from before were back in their spawncamping spots, and I had to repeat the process over again. Even when I spawned at O1, they both still had shots on me.

 

The moral of this is that there is still a LOT of work that needs to be done with the spawns. Places like Mountain Town O2 and Town O1 and D4 are death traps and are nearly impossible to push, since the spawns are so close to the points. The one thing that many spawns need urgently is multiple exits for vehicles. A single chokepoint exit promotes camping and just makes for a frustrating experience for both teams.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RadicalEdward2    1,889

On another note, (this is more of an artistic suggestion though) I took a moment to look around at the non-playable area on Hill Skirmish and noticed how nice the devs (not sure which) tried to give the outer fields some scenery in the form of rolling hills with farmland.

I thought it was a nice touch and think a lot of maps could benefit from it thematically.

 

u3yXj6t.jpg

Beyond the playable borders of Mountain Town, there's just lots of nothingness and hills that don't exactly give any sort of feel of a mountainous region. Outside of the playable area, passed the invisible walls, there should be mountains or at least the illusion of mountains. I wouldn't exactly say I'm referring to a skybox but, you all get what I mean.

The mountains should look like the ones from the older build. Maybe even add some tiny houses for decoration.

CFrvEcr.jpg

 

I know @Reto.Desji stated that there were some graphical limitations for mountains in the current build but, I think outside of the playable area, mountains would look nice (especially without that weird rock/dirt texture used on all the hills.

 

Adding mountains outside the playing area shouldn't increase the risk of tank campers and sniper mountain men either if it's outside the playing area beyond the "barrier". To discourage players from trying to walk up the map barriers, the flat terrain on the maps outskirts could be lowered to create a low enough depression to stop players from walking any closer. Tanks could be deterred from venturing to the outer edges as well by adding more water at that bottom of the depression. (like a downward hill slope since cliffs are also still in the works)

 

It could even give Fighter pilots something nice to look at and maneuver through. Right now, air combat isn't exactly the best since the majority of it is spent taxiing in open air waiting for enemy planes to spawn in. So adding mountains outside the map should both improve the visuals of the map but possibly make Mountain Town a favorite among Fighter players.

CT7CRsU.jpg

Once mountains are fully realized and game-friendly, they can be integrated into the playable battlefield. Again, I know that's a long way down the line but, it's something worth working towards.

 

 

Edited
Fixed broken images

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RadicalEdward2    1,889

While I am still working on further ways to improve Mountain Town, here's a somewhat small change that should be made:

IvElzHm.png

 

The railings at the end of the metal bridge is too much and should be shortened a bit. The turn is too tight (especially for trucks and tanks).

 

On a larger note, I made the suggestion of adding this to E4 in Town Assault:

Spoiler

F8m5TrW.png

 

I feel like there is an over abundance of man-made terraforming in Mountain Town (all along the South side of the river).

I feel as if Mountain Town sort of lost it's identity because whatever riverfront wall work that was done there should have been done to Town instead; almost like two children swapped at birth.

Mountain Town should have inherited the hilly riverfront property that's around Town's E4 and old B4 while Town should have received the more developed look that surrounds both of Mountain Town's objectives. Overall, the weird include of Quays shouldn't have been made because the Mountain Town doesn't even look developed enough to even have them.

 

I did also have plans for how to fix the original Mountain Town that could be applied if the old map was brought back as its own map independent of the current one.

yyJ4c1q.png

 

This revision is a bit rough because I wanted to get the thoughts out quickly because people were mentioning that they liked the old map better and I wanted to voice my thoughts on it ASAP.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RadicalEdward2    1,889

I'm starting to lose my patience with this map.

I just quit out of a match where the 02 spawn was literally camped like a child pouring water on an ant hill.

I left the match because they weren't even bothering with capping 02 anymore.

 

Use the proposal I suggested, make more than one defense spawn per objective, or scrap the post-launch spawn mechanic altogether.

 

99TdRUa.png

 

The driver of that Panther was just shot out of his tank from behind a second after this screenshot was taken.

YPH8062.png

 

The driverless tank was shelled by a tank destroyer perched on the hills across the river (where I said camping was prominent months ago).

ESwmLS6.png

 

 

If the mechanic requires the entire formula and layout of a game to take on a complete restructuring and requires areas to be walled off to prevent camping and hills to be terraformed, then the system is not work saving. It requires far too much reworking to warrant its existence.

 

I could model a complete replica of the area just to fix this issue but, it would only further encourage this amalgamation of bad gameplay to persist longer when it's already received universal criticism.

 

( @Frontfunker Need help moving this to Map Talk)

 

Edited

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Akinaba    462

Great trread! Mybe merge it with the common mountain town doscussion?

Edited

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RadicalEdward2    1,889
1 hour ago, TheEricksen said:

The guy with the bangs that makes the maps never played a first person shooter before.  You are talking to nobody.  The more effort you put into this the more disappointed you will be when they don't do anything.

 

Guy with the bangs? You mean @Reto.Desji ? He has. But sometimes, people like I have come around and buff out the maps blemishes~

Also, I'm actually aware that he as well as a few other members of the Reto team follow my work.

You're not the first person to tell me to give up lol

I'm just too invested (not financially) at this point to give up ;)

 

5 hours ago, Akinaba said:

Great trread! Mybe merge it with the common mountain town doscussion?

 

I already linked this thread with the Mountain Town discussion. Check page 1 lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Marv2.0    556

ah for the spawncamping (at least in war) could defenders spawn their tanks at owned access points again?

 

doesn't help attackers really... but access point spawns are wide and not walled off, so predicting stuff becomes harder.

 

Flanking for the defender may be easier. But honestly if the defenders also control the necessary bridges, the distances are likely the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RadicalEdward2    1,889
30 minutes ago, Marv2.0 said:

ah for the spawncamping (at least in war) could defenders spawn their tanks at owned access points again?

 

doesn't help attackers really... but access point spawns are wide and not walled off, so predicting stuff becomes harder.

 

Flanking for the defender may be easier. But honestly if the defenders also control the necessary bridges, the distances are likely the same.

Agreed. What they need to do is something like that first revision I proposed for 02:

 

6AKwDWK.png

 

But it needs more exit points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites