Project 'Handgun'

[logrouacidskor 63]

Before read this thread
1. This is purely my own proposal, not Reto's Official Project
2. No 'Bias' included, I'm the Player who plays all 3 Factions equally
3. I try best as I could to keep balance between 'Historical Accuracy' & 'Reality' & 'Game Balance'
4. Remember even if my proposal are accept and release to ingame by Reto, Its all up to Reto who set Detail Specification & Balanced of the Contents, not me
5. Please keep productive conversation on comment, I welcome productive discussion as well

Why we need new Handguns? 
Because Each faction's Handguns are unbalanced and has missing parts

US & SU has 3 Handguns while only GE has 4
The Price & Progression is quit Unfair because of that (Walther P38 worth 150K Credits Unlocks at Handgun Ribbon 12, while M1917 & Nagant both worth 117K Credits Unlocks at Ribbon 9)
Plus there are almost no difference between Tier 3 Luger P08 and Tier 4 Walther P38

As Reto filled the missing parts of LMG, Grenade Tech Tree, I think there should be time to fill the missing gaps on Handgun Tree too someday
I know Handgun is not urgent thing to deal with right away, I just want Reto to consider this suggestion later when they look into Handguns
Besides, Handgun Tree is more important than Grenade Tree aren't they?

This is the Main Handgun Tech Tree I consider of

1. Main Handgun Tech Tree 






<US>

New US Tier 2 Handgun : S&W 'Victory' Revolver

Spoiler

.38 Special, 6 Round Capacity
 

S&W Victory Model is originally came from Smith & Wesson's Model 10 Revolver 
It chambers .38 Special Cartridge and has 6 Round capacity just like other common Revolvers had
The Reason why I'm suggesting this Revolver to US faction is because this gun "Used a lot' & 'Adapted Officially' on US Military in WW2

'The Victory Model was a standard-issue sidearm for United States Navy and Marine Corps aircrews'
- by Wikipedia
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_10#World_War_II )

Even the gun's name is 'Victory' Model cause of Military Propaganda during WW2 (because every model of this Revolver has serial numbers with a "V" prefix)
Plus, not only Navy & Marine Corps but US Army Air Crops pilots used this Revolver as well and there are records that some of Ground Unit Army Officers purchased & used this privately as well
Same as Colt M1903 Pocket Hammerless, its even not official handgun on US Military but just privately purchased & used by quit lot of Officers so its adapted in-game
So there is no need to be argued about whether this Handgun is appropriate to adapt on H&G
 

It chambers .38 Special Cartridge which is much powerful than other Cartridge on GE & Soviet side Tier2
And it has only 6 rounds which is less than GE & Soviet Counterpart Tier2
Because of that, the Characteristic of this Pistol will be similar to US M1917 Revolver
Powerful than other faction's counterparts but Low RPM, Low Capacity
Giving it extra Special DMG Bullet (like M1917's +P Ammo) that makes it 3 Hit Kill Heavyset will might be suitable (HSB or HSS maybe? idk)
I think its okay cause S&W Victory Revolver didn't have Moon Clip or Speed Loaders on WW2, and US Military didn't have nor used that kind of device on this model as well too
That means it has to be loaded each single bullet at a time like Nagant Revolver 

= Overall =
As S&W Victory Revolver gets on Tier 2
M1911A1 goes Tier 3 from Tier 2
M1917 Revolver goes Tier 4 from Tier 3
And that makes US Handgun Tree get 4 Handguns

Of course there has to be spec adjust to M1911A1 and M1917 Revolver cause they got higher Tier (ex, M1917 Max DMG Ammo get 2 Hit Kill HSB whatever, currently its 2HK non HS)

Plus, M1911A1 should be 7 Round Capacity, not 8 Round
Current H&G's M1911A1 has 8 Round Capacity which is wrong, the only way it could be 8 Round is 1 Round in Chamber but that system isn't yet on H&G
So I strongly suggest to decrease M1911A1's capacity to 7 Round, and Increase its DMG little bit to compensate it
Its the only weapon on H&G currently which has '1 Round in-chamber' Capacity, and non of other weapons didn't

P.S. I wish Reto fixes M1917 Revolver's wrong Cylinder Rotation, its Minor little detail issue that can solve easily
Plz check the thread I wrote before

 

<GE>

German has already 4 handguns so no need to introduce new one
But I think there should be spec adjust between P38 and P08
I agreed that quit a lot players tolds "there r almost no difference between P38 & P08"

Both Pistol has same RPM (which is hightest RPM of all Handguns)
Both has similar DMG too just not a big difference
P08 is lower Tier than P38 but it has even Faster Reload & Better Accuracy, Recoil too
There is no big point to get P38 which has more Expensive Price than P08 but has similar spec (as I told above, P08 has more better part of spec too)
P08 should be Tier 3 like
P38 should be Tier 4 like
but currently P08 performes almost like Tier 3.8 which makes P38 pointless compared to P08 
And thats why I think the 'Gap' between P38 & P08 should be more wider 
Whether nerf P08 or berf P38 or Doing Both, idk but there should be some spec adjust for appropriate to each Tier Position & Price

<SU>


New Soviet Tier 2 Handgun : M1921 'Bolo' Mauser

Spoiler

7.62mm Tokarev, 10 Round Capacity (there is 6 Round version as well which is minor one, 10 Round version is more popular)

This is Model 1921 version of famous C96 Mauser Pistol and its 'Not' German's Pistol but Soviet's Pistol
The nickname 'Bolo' came from 'Bolshevik' which goverment import and used this 
It featured smaller grips, a shorter 99mm (3.9 inch) barrel than Original C96
It chambers 7.63x25 Mauser, but it can also chambers 7.62 Tokarev very suitably (Same Cartridge of TT-33) 
Thats why Soviet Government didn't retire this Pistol from service even WW2 broke out, because it has common Cartridge to supply

I'm suggesting this Pistol to SU because its 'Officialy Adapted & Used' by Soviet Union Military on WW2 widely
It use same cartridge as TT-33, has no Balance or Historical problem to adapt this on H&G

= Overall =
As M1921 Bolo Mauser gets on Tier 2, there should be spec adjust to TT-33 & Nagant Revolver for they got Higher Tier
As TT-33 goes to Tier 3 & Nagant goes to Tier 4, I think it would appropriate to berf both Handguns (DMG or RoF or Both)
Considering Nagant's horrible reload, giving 2hitkill non Heavyset on Max DMG Ammo might be not bad choice I think

 

 

This is Main Handgun Tech Tree I'm suggesting
The goal of this Project is to make all 3 Faction's Handguns performs similar as its counterparts

P.S. I saw not a small number of players wish Skin for Old Pistols like C96, M1911, P38

I think it would be more better to get Skins on Handguns that didn't have Skins yet for long long time
Can we get it plz?




2. Suppressor Handgun Tech Tree




There are Suppressor Tech Tree too, I saw Reto.Christiano had interested on Suppressed Weapons since 2017
 

So I personally made Suppressed Version Pistol Tree as well
I don't know how Suppressed Handguns gonna adapt on H&G, whether for Recon only or whatever
But as Reto had interested on Suppressed Handgun, I strongly suggest this kind of another Separated Tech Tree
(Putting Suppressor as modification on current Handguns isn't good Idea as I think cause there some Suppressed Handguns totaly different Model, like HDM)

<US>

Spoiler

Tier 1. Hi-Standard HDM 
.22 LR, 10 Round Capacity
Used widely on OSS & other special operation during WW2

Tier 2. M1911A1 with Maxim Silencer
.45 ACP, 7 Round Capacity
There are some reports and documents about suppressed version M1911 before Korean War & Vietnam War

 

<GE>

Spoiler

Tier 1. Walther PP with HUB-L32
.380 ACP, 7 Round Capacity
Suppressed version Walther PP series was used on WW2 with Suppressed Walther PPK

Tier 2. Luger P08 with HUB-L3
9mm Para, 8 Round Capacity
Same, Luger P08 with Suppressor was used on German side during WW2

<SU>

Spoiler

Tier 1. TT-33 BraMit
7.62mm Tokarev, 8 Round Capacity
There are some documents said there was prototype version of TT-33 with Suppressor during WW2

Tier 2. Nagant M1895 BraMit
7.62mm Type R, 7 Round Capacity
Used on Soviet during WW2 as Patrol, Scout, Reconnaissance

Considering about Nagant's horrible reload, remove DMG Ammo Mod from Suppressor version Nagant and switch Tier between Suppressed TT-33 would be not bad idea I think

Like this

Spoiler

Yeah I know there must be some of players ask me this kind of question

"where is P38 Suppressor?"
=> In fact, telling the truth there was NO Walther P38 Suppressor version made or used during WW2
All of Walther P38 Suppressor made and used was after WW2, during Cold War
Luger P08 by the hand was used on Suppressed during WW2 so I put it on Tech Tree rather than P38

"But why TT-33 Suppressor? isn't it Post-War thing too?"
=> Yes thats true, I can't find WW2 era TT-33 Suppressor
But there was no choice to make, in Historical View its fairly wrong, but in Game Balance View its Good Choice
Plus, there some documents said there was prototype version of TT-33 with Suppressor during WW2 so not a huge historically wrong choice either
I can't find more better thing than TT-33 Suppressor for predecessor of Nagant Revolver Suppressor

"Cz 27 with suppressor was used on German during ww2 too, how about that?"
=> I know that, but its from Czecho, not German
There are already decent suppressed german handguns, so I think its more appropriate to use german made Handgun on Tech Tree
Same as Welrod pistol, its British and singleshot - manual cocking system so unappropriate for US Suppressor Handgun

"Why Walther PP rather than PPK?"
=> Walther PPK's spec is .32 ACP version with 7 Round Capacity (or .380 ACP, 6 Round)
While Walther PP has .380 ACP, 7 Round Capacity (or .32 ACP version, 8 Round)
PPK is more weaker & has less capacity than other faction's counterpart Tier1 Suppressor Handguns so not appropriate for game balance, + there was Suppressor version on PP too
Why we have to choose unbalanced version (PPK) while we have can choose balanced version (PP)?

"Was M1911A1 with Suppressor exsist on WW2?"
=> Maybe Yes? or No?
I saw few Books and Documents telling that there was suppressor version M1911 made before Korean & Vietnam War
But I can't find the real Photo or evidence of WW2 era M1911A1 Suppressor as well
What I'm sure about is that there are Maxim Silencer Products for 45 Cal Hunting Rifle, which fits on 45 Cal Pistols as well on that Era
The Battlefield 1 & Battlefield 5 has M1911 with Maxim Silencer based on that too, so I don't think its not appropriate on H&G as well, why not?

Spoiler

This is Photo of Battlefield serise M1911A1 with Maxim Silencer

I considered all options that I could thought and I had conclusion that this is best way for Suppressor Handgun Tech Tree on both Historicaly Accurate & Balanced way

3. DLC & Bundle Package only Handgun

I'll explain everything


"What is DLC & Bundle Only Handgun?"
=> Its concept of Handguns that Same type of Main Tech Tree, Same Spec of Main Tech Tree, but different Handguns that can only gain by purchase DLC or Bundles

"Why we need this?"
=> This is not necessary of course, but this will bring benefits to both Players & Reto

"How?"
=> Take a look at few ingame bundles or DLC that includes Handguns
Lot of players tell "Why u buy that kind of stuff? u can just activate boost, play some First Encounter and that will much faster & cheaper", "U don't have to use real money on it"
But what if current DLC & Bundle included Handguns aren't same as Main Tree Handguns, and only can gain by purchase DLC or Bundle?
'The Scarcity' makes huge difference on that point 
Even some of players who didn't need that kind of Handguns would buy it cause its Rare Value
Thats why players are very interested on Promotion Items (Bloody Shovel Skin etc), it attracts people's mind of containing rare things that u couldn't gain normaly
Release those Handguns with Bundle or DLC name like 'Sidearms for Veteran Officers' would problaly attract players mind I think
If it includes special promotion skin etc will be more dramatic
The players who don't get any attention to DLC & Bundle will get attention too, cause its not normal Main Tree Handguns that u could farm it 

"The Handguns that can only gain by DLC & Bundle? Isn't that Pay 2 Win?"  
=> Absolutely Not, cause specs of those Handguns would be almost same as same Tier Main Tree Handguns
Thats why I choose almost same variant of Handguns from Main Tree
DLC&Bundle's Tier 1 Pocket Pistols had little more DMG than Main Tree Tier 1 Pocket Pistols, but has less 1 round capacity so not a big deal 
(although NKVD Nagant should get rid of Max DMG Ammo for balance)
Tier 3 are just same as Main Tree counterpart, same caliber, same RoF, same capacity
TT-30 = TT-33  /  M1911 = M1911A1  /  Mauser P08 = Luger P08 

"Will Reto afford to develope those Handguns?"
=> Thats why I choose same type but different variant from Main Tree
For example, M1908 Pocket Hammerless is just 380 ACP version of current ingame M1903 Pocket Hammerless
M1911 is just WW1 version of current ingame M1911A1 which almost no difference
TT30 is just previous version of current ingame TT-33 as well which almost no difference
Mauser P08 Byf-41 is SS Officer version of current ingame Luger P08 which no difference except skin
Nagant NKVD Officer Model is shorter, smaller version of current ingame Nagant Revolver
Walther PP? there is suppressed version on Suppressor Tree, just un-suppressed it and Ta-Da

All of those Handguns had just minor detail difference between MainTree Handguns and that makes Reto more suitable to develope (modeling, spec adjust etc)
As I debate about Handgun trees with Korean H&G Veteran Community & Forums, there was lot of option that people suggested
like Steyr M1912, Mauser HSc, Kongsberg Colt, etc but I'm suggesting those handgun tree above because of 'efficiency' for Reto who develope things
There is no need to make up completely new-model
Of course I wouldn't stop if Reto gonna make completely whole new handguns like Steyr M1912 or Mauser HSc, etc which quit lot of GE Playerbase asked for
I'm just suggesting the most easiest way for Reto
 

As U can see, there would be no Balance or Pay 2 Win Issue
Its easy to model those handguns cause its almost same one as main tree
So its easy to burden Reto's afford to do create new BM (Business Model)
What DLC or Bundle that Players prefer between 'Same Handgun on MainTree' VS 'Handgun that similar but different unique Model and skin' 
I have full confidence that this would be Win-Win to both Players & Reto
Hope Reto consider this as positive way

4. Overall

So this is overall result of Handgun Tech Tree that Me & other my fellow Veteran Korean Players suggesting
 

This is 'Consistencey' way 
Suppressed version of Nagant Revolver didn't get origianl Nagant's DMG Ammo Mod and that makes of Balance

(Commander version Nagant as well)




This is 'Alternative' way
In this case, Suppressed version Nagant Revolver gets its DMG Ammo (Commander version Nagant still can't have DMG Ammo)
But Suppressed TT-33 quit be overpowered compared to its counterpart suppressed Tier 1

Thats why I prefer 'Consistencey' way more than 'Alternative' way cause its more Balanced & has Consistency

As ending this Thread

There are another good option of Handguns for new Tech Tree like Steyr M1912, Mauser HSc, Kongsberg Colt, 1942 baltiets pistol, etc

I read lot of previous threads about Handguns on Forum, and Me&Korean Veteran Players considered every option to make better Tech Tree but we had conclusion that 'Overall' Tech Tree that I suggested above is Best Option to choose in both Historical way and Balance way

As reading many Threads about Handguns, I can see that lot of Players be eager to get new Handguns and Tech Tree
I think its really time to filled up current Handgun Tree, even Grenades got its place of complete Tech Tree
@Reto.Hades
@Reto.Christiano

Yeah, I know DLC&Bundle only Tech Tree is quit Fresh Idea that some of players or even Reto might not delight about it, and thats okay
Its just a brand new concept that me & fellow korean veteran players suggesting, we're okay that idea has abandon
But as Main & Suppresor Handgun Tree, we sincerely wish it come true and released on game one day
Especially Main Handgun Tree is necessary for In-game Balance Issue too

Thanks for everybody who read all this long-thread 
Please tell us ur ideas on comments


 

- by logrouacidskor & Korean H&G Veterans Discord-Forum

Edited February 17, 2021

[PrivateMarkosL 390]

I agree with you always but for some reason people say that US does not need a 2nd revolver.I don't know why but to me,the S&W is a perfect candidate to finalize the US pistol tier.

 

The TT33 Bramit is not a prototype it was used by SMERSH but i'm not a fan of silenced pistols or SMGs and i believe they aren't necessary.Also it seems they have scrapped the silenced SMGs idea and are going to keep them on hold forever.The thing is the PPSH41 with bramit silencer never existed.

Edited February 17, 2021

[logrouacidskor 63]

2 hours ago, PrivateMarkosL said:

I agree with you always but for some reason people say that US does not need a 2nd revolver.I don't know why but to me,the S&W is a perfect candidate to finalize the US pistol tier.

 

The TT33 Bramit is not a prototype it was used by SMERSH but i'm not a fan of silenced pistols or SMGs and i believe they aren't necessary.Also it seems they have scrapped the silenced SMGs idea and are going to keep them on hold forever.The thing is the PPSH41 with bramit silencer never existed.

First, thx for ur support mate
What I mean TT33 BraMit Prototype is when WW2 it was prototype but after WW2 and entered Cold War era, it become official product
Could u give any link or information about SMERSH's TT33 BraMit? I want to know about it too
Silenced SMG? well... at least I heard that there was Test about PPSh41 with BraMit and Reto.Christiano's Model was based on that
Well actually we don't have any appropriate BraMit SMG on SU except PPD or PPSh so I understand that Christiano had no choice to make
anyway as always thx for ur support 

[logrouacidskor 63]

42 minutes ago, logrouacidskor said:

some reason people say that US does not need a 2nd revolver

I wished to tell them "In that same logic, GE does not need P38 too"
How shame idea they are

Why GE has to get 4 Handgun while US & SU has only 3? => X
Why US & SU has to get 3 Handgun while GE has 4? => O
This should be right logic.
Its not problem about GE has extra 1 Handgun, Its the problem about US & SU had 1 Handguns Missing
I hope players who think like i quoted change their thoughts after reading this

Edited February 17, 2021

[PrivateMarkosL 390]

20 hours ago, logrouacidskor said:

I wished to tell them "In that same logic, GE does not need P38 too"
How shame idea they are

Why GE has to get 4 Handgun while US & SU has only 3? => X
Why US & SU has to get 3 Handgun while GE has 4? => O
This should be right logic.
Its not problem about GE has extra 1 Handgun, Its the problem about US & SU had 1 Handguns Missing
I hope players who think like i quoted change their thoughts after reading this

i agree with you full 100%.They mostly use the ''But SU has 3 SMGs''.The thing is it's RETO's neglect to add another one SMG on Germany and US.And their argument is stupid because 3 SMGs =/= Soviets and Americans shouldn't have 1 more pistol.Also the S&W saw use with the Marine Raiders,which means it saw frontline use as well.

 

20 hours ago, logrouacidskor said:

First, thx for ur support mate
What I mean TT33 BraMit Prototype is when WW2 it was prototype but after WW2 and entered Cold War era, it become official product
Could u give any link or information about SMERSH's TT33 BraMit? I want to know about it too
Silenced SMG? well... at least I heard that there was Test about PPSh41 with BraMit and Reto.Christiano's Model was based on that
Well actually we don't have any appropriate BraMit SMG on SU except PPD or PPSh so I understand that Christiano had no choice to make
anyway as always thx for ur support 

ohh now that clears it!.Yeah...the TT33 did not have a silencer until after the second world war.But if they do go ahead with silenced pistols which i am not a fun of.They can give them captured p08 silenced.

Edited February 18, 2021