Reto.Hades

Next round of weapon balancing

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Reto.Hades    3,438

So initially we wanted to make a balancing patch in november, however this was pushed back due to a lack of time.

Since then based on some discussions on the discord, I have made some additional changes to the earlier plans, which I will share here.

 

Due to commentary about the difficult to use the AVS-36 I found out a pretty big difference in the 'camerarecoilvariance' of the AVS compared to the STG and M2 carbine. By changing this number, I expect players will have the feeling of 'more control' over the weapon again.

 

These are for the most part now set in stone. Though there may be some very small number changes still.

No vehicle changes yet, as I ended up with a bit more weapon changes than I initially thought I would.

 

Unless something really crazy happens, vehicles should be up for the next balancing update later this year.

The current update with be the 4th one we do since the start in 2019, to summerise:

1st update: More distinct weapon classes

2nd update: Smaller advantage modifications

3rd update: Smaller advantage badges

4th (current) update: Only individual weapon tweaks

 

 

General focus:

- Germany seems to be overperforming a bit, while the Soviets are a bit underperforming, the US tends to be in the middle

- Heavy Machineguns see the biggest performance differences between factions

- AR's are overperforming a bit

- LMG's are underperforming a bit

- Pistols are underperforming a bit

- Flamethrowers are underperforming a bit

 

Full list:

 

Assault rifles:

 

Increase range far for M2 carbine by about 1,1 to 1,3 (18%)
Increase camerarecoilup M2 carbine from 1,1 to 1,26 (15%)

 

Reduce swaystandmode STG-44 from 1,76 to 1,58 (-10%)
Increase swaycrouchmode STG-44 from 1,36 to 1,42 (5%)
Increase camerarecoilup STG-44 from 1,2 to 1,44 (20%)

 

(some initial values were wrong in the trello board, but the changes remain the same)

Reduce swaystandmode AVS-36 from 1,8 to 1,53 (-15%)

Reduce swaystandmode AVS-36 from 1,85 to 1,6 (-15%)
Increase swaycrouchmode AVS-36 from 1,25 to 1,34 (7,5%)

Increase swaycrouchmode AVS-36 from 1,27 to 1,36 (7,5%)
Increase camerarecoilup AVS-36 from 1,6 to 1,92 (20%)
Reduce camerarecoilvariance AVS-36 from 0,18 to 0,13 (-30%) (this stat basically means random/unpredictable recoil)
Reduce aimpenaltyperbullet AVS-36 from 0,65 to 0,59 (-10%)

 

Results:

- More upwards recoil all 3 weapons

- Less sway while standing, more while crouched STG-44

- Less 'random recoil' and 'sway while firing' AVS-36

- Less sway while standing, more while crouched AVS-36

 

Bolt-action weapons:

 

Below applies to: Karabiner 98, Springfield, Mosin Nagant

- Reduce swaystandmode from 1,3 to 1,0 (-30%)
- swaycrouchmode from 0,49 to 0,3 (-40%)
- swaypronemode from 0,29 (springfield 0,32) to 0,15 (-50%)
- camerarecoilup from 0,9 to 0,7
- camerarecoilright from 0,16 to 0,14 (0,163 to 0,142 springfield)

 

Results:

- Less sway

- Less recoil

 

Machineguns:

 

Ribbon changes:

- MG34 from LMG Assault level 5 to Infantry Assault level 9
- MG13 from Infantry Assault level 9 to LMG Assault level 5

- DT-29 from LMG Assault level 5 to Infantry Assault level 9
- DP-28 from Infantry Assault level 9 to LMG Assault level 5

 

Tier 3 machineguns HMG (MG42, MT, 1919):

 

Decrease aimpenaltyprecisionmodifier MG42 from 0,5 to 0,425
Increase swaystandmode MG42 from 3 to 4

Increase swaystandmode MG42 from 3,5 to 4
Decrease swaycrouchmode MG42 from 2,1 to 1,7
Decrease swaypronemode MG42 from 0,7 to 0,4
Decrease ammoDamageMod MG42 from 0,740741 to 0,65 (wtf is that number ^^)
Decrease Damagefar MG42 from 0,8 to 0,72
Increase upwards Recoil MG42 from 1,8 to 2,07
Increase sideward recoil MG42  from 0,4 to 0,45

 

Decrease aimpenaltyprecisionmodifier 1919 from 0,4 to 0,35
Increase swaystandmode 1919 from 3 to 4
Decrease swaycrouchmode 1919 from 1,7 to 1,45
Decrease swaypronemode 1919 from 0,8 to 0,45
Decrease ammoDamageMod browning 1919 from 0,85 to 0,81 (39 DMG)
Increase upwards Recoil 1919 from 1,5 to 1,76
 

Decrease aimpenaltyprecisionmodifier Maxim Tokarev from 0,4 to 0,35
Increase swaystandmode Maxim Tokarev from 3 to 4
Decrease swaycrouchmode Maxim Tokarev from 1,7 to 1,45
Decrease swaypronemode Maxim Tokarev from 0,8 to 0,45
Increase upwards Recoil Maxim Tokarev from 1,6 to 1,7
 

Results:

- MG42 from G4HK 3HK to G5HK 4HK

- 1919 from G3HK 3HK to G4HK 3HK

- More sway while standing

- Less sway while crouched

- Less sway while prone

- More upwards recoil

 

Tier 2 machineguns LMG (Johnson, DT-29, MG34):
 

Decrease swaycrouchmode MG-34 from 1,15 to 1,05
Decrease swaypronemode MG34 from 0,75 to 0,6

Increase recoiltime MG34 0.1 to 0.08571 (600 RPM to 700 RPM)

 

Decrease swaycrouchmode Johnson from 1,6 to 1,2


Decrease swaypronemode DT-29 from 0,86 to 0,6
Increase camerarecoilright DT 29 from 0,3 to 0,32
Increase camerarecoilup DT-29 from 1,1 to 1,2

 

Tier 1 machineguns Mixed (MG-13, BAR, DP-28):

 

Decrease swaycrouchmode MG-13 from 1,36 to 1,02

Increase swaystandmode MG-13 1.76 to 1.83
Decrease baseconefire MG-13 from 0,41 to 0,37

 

Decrease swaycrouchmode BAR from 1,24 to 0,99
Decrease camerarecoilright BAR from 0,3 to 0,27

Decrease baseconefire BAR 0.45 to 0.4
Decrease swaystandmode BAR 1.89 to 1.71

 

Decrease swaycrouchmode DP-28 from 1,21 to 0,85

Decrease swaycrouchmode DP-28 from 1,21 to 1,00
Decrease baseconefire DP-28 from 0,5 to 0,4
Decrease swaystandmode DP-28 from 1,71 to 1,61

Increase swaystandmode DP-28 from 1,61 to 1,82

Increase camerarecoilup DP-28 0.9 to 1.2

 

SMG changes:

 

Increase camerarecoilup PPD-40 from 0,43 to 0,46


Increase camerarecoilup PPSh-41 from 0,43 to 0,50
Reduce recoiltime PPSH-41 from 0,075 to 00706 (850 RPM)


Decrease recoilvariance Thompson M1A1 from 0,18 to 0,15
Reduce camerarecoilup Thompson M1A1 from 0,5 to 0,45
Increase damageclose Thompson M1A1 from 1,03 to 1,04 (currently does 33,99 damage which gets rounded down)


Reduce swaystandmode Mp40 from 1.45 to 1,35

 

Other changes:

 

(flamethrowers might still change, but haven't yet, so crossed out for now)

- All pistols +20% RPM
- Flamethrowers +15% range

- Flamethrowers +10% damage

- Flamethrowers (if possible): Longer flames on the ground/walls

- Flamethrowers (if possible): Flames bounce of walls

- Flamethrowers (if possible): Flames creep around objects more

- Offensive grenades: Damage increased from 150 to 170

- Offensive grenades: Fuse time decreased from 3 seconds to 2,5 seconds

- Large grenades: Fuse time increase from 3 seconds to 3,5 seconds

- Snowballs: 100% more ammo

- PMK-40 damage reduced from 90 to 80 (to avoid 1HK with badge)

- Snowballs: 10 per 'cartridge' rather than 1, mostly to improve reloading on ammocrates (now it restocks 1 at a time which lasts forever)

 

 

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VenstreDjevel    408
59 minutes ago, Reto.Hades said:

Ribbon changes:

- MG34 from LMG Assault level 5 to Infantry Assault level 9
- MG13 from Infantry Assault level 9 to LMG Assault level 5

- DT-29 from LMG Assault level 5 to Infantry Assault level 9
- DP-28 from Infantry Assault level 9 to LMG Assault level 5

So if I read this right for GE/SU have tier 1 and 2 swapped?

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Sqeek    729
1 hour ago, Reto.Hades said:

Due to commentary about the difficult to use the AVS-36 I found out a pretty big difference in the 'camerarecoilvariance' of the AVS compared to the STG and M2 carbine. By changing this number, I expect players will have the feeling of 'more control' over the weapon again.

 

Any thoughts on the hip firing ability on the AVS vs M2/STG?

 

You know, as of now, the AVS is quite noticeably worse than M2/STG. Increasing the camera recoilup on the AVS isn't really gonna help.

Edited

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Trollfaktor    400
2 hours ago, Reto.Hades said:

3rd update: Smaller advantage badges

do we still get the possibility to level the General badges when using AT? were addressed when the topic was open.

 

2 hours ago, Reto.Hades said:

- All pistols +20% RPM

was it not nerfed to-40%? would like to see it back on the old firerates. pistols was really no reason to touch them.

 

would also be nice to give the nagant revolver a shorter reload time. at the same time take out the single shot reload animation when you fire 8 times in the heat of battle. the gun then reloads only once and shooting again.. is really frustrating and has already been addressed.

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25 minutes ago, Trollfaktor said:

at the same time take out the single shot reload animation when you fire 8 times in the heat of battle. the gun then reloads only once and shooting again.. is really frustrating and has already been addressed.

I think that's on the Dev Overview? https://trello.com/c/3Mq7vBx8/219-add-delay-to-reload-interruption-mechanic

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NJCQEC    88

No Repair price decrease for the M2? Come'on man!

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puppepongo    196

So basiclly you´re gonna r*pe the lmg´s again like update 1.18.2? 

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drhoops    2,319
4 hours ago, Reto.Hades said:

- Flamethrowers (if possible): Longer flames on the ground/walls

- Flamethrowers (if possible): Flames bounce of walls

- Flamethrowers (if possible): Flames creep around objects more

 

Let's all just imagine Krepost.

First there is a whole lot of screams, then as all those flames build up on the walls and floors, then frames go to 6.

 

If you must increase range and damage of the flamethrower, fine.  But bouncing off walls?  Really?  You realize that flamethrowers shoot jelled gasoline right?  It's not a laser hitting a mirror.

 

The rest of the changes sound ok.  LMG's needed a nerf.

Edited

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RoL3aN    2

Maybe it's enough to balance the weapon already?
The game is full of problems. But Reto, as always, does something completely different.

Meme:

Spoiler

roflbot.jpg

 

Edited

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48 minutes ago, RoL3aN said:

Maybe it's enough to balance the weapon already?
The game is full of problems. But Reto, as always, does something completely different.

Meme:

  Hide contents

roflbot.jpg

 

It's just @Reto.Hades getting feedback, it won't take long for the actual devs to implement the changes when it's all sorted out.

Edited

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OC_Ludwig    526
7 hours ago, Reto.Hades said:

Bolt-action weapons:

 

Below applies to: Karabiner 98, Springfield, Mosin Nagant

- Reduce swaystandmode from 1,3 to 1,0 (-30%)
- swaycrouchmode from 0,49 to 0,3 (-40%)
- swaypronemode from 0,29 (springfield 0,32) to 0,15 (-50%)
- camerarecoilup from 0,9 to 0,7
- camerarecoilright from 0,16 to 0,14 (0,163 to 0,142 springfield)

 

Results:

- Less sway

- Less recoil

 

To my understanding, after the HS Silver buff the K98 and the Mosin Nagant can't no longer one hit kill Heavy Set Bronze in their infantry max damage configurations, but the Springfield is able to do it. Is that going to be reviewed?

 

Cheers!

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1 minute ago, OC_Ludwig said:

To my understanding, after the HS Silver buff the K98 and the Mosin Nagant can't no longer one hit kill Heavy Set Bronze in their infantry max damage configurations, but the Springfield is able to do it. Is that going to be reviewed?

I'd also like the first unlocked ammo (s.S. Patrone, Black Hornet, Type L-41 JPH) to be reviewed as well since only the Kar98k can 2HK HSG with them and it'd be nice for the other BA rifles to be able to do so as well.

 

And also the Match, M72 - that doesn't 2HK HSG on the M1 Garand either.

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7 hours ago, Reto.Hades said:

- Germany seems to be overperforming a bit

Hasn't this been the constant situation regardless of weapon or war balance for the past six years?

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d|ng    3,323

Overall I like the directions of these changes a lot, especially recognition that AVS was in a bad place and the "ARs" were dominating too much.  Will be interesting to see what the new recoils feel like.   Very much like making the HMGs harder to use while standing.  Like that BA rifles are being improved and higher fire rate for pistols.  The majority these changes make a lot of sense to me from playing a lot lately and observing the current metas.

 

Some things though: 

-thompson damage improvement is not really needed;   would rather see bullet velocity increase so its easier to use at further ranges like the MP40 and PPS43.  It's about landing shots not the damage.

-don't think PPD or PPSH needed nerfing

-johnson has way more recoil than its counterparts, would have liked to see that reduced a bit or something done about sights/losing targets that both dp28 and mg13 do not have an issue with whereas Johnson does.  Improving mg13 conefire seems like an unnessary buff as well...

-not keen on buffing flame noob weapons further than it was.   It was already really good.

 

8 minutes ago, _Finnish_Gamemaster_ said:

Hasn't this been the constant situation regardless of weapon or war balance for the past six years?

GE had it really rough in 2017 & 2018.  

Edited

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3 minutes ago, d|ng said:

-thompson damage improvement is not really needed;   would rather see bullet velocity increase so its easier to use at further ranges like the MP40 and PPS43.  It's about landing shots not the damage.

We're mainly addressing the rather ridiculous inability of 33.99 damage to 3HK with that change.

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SirMrGuyHuman    477

I haven't kekd this hard at an update in a looooooong time

7 hours ago, Reto.Hades said:

- MG42 big nerf

- 1919 small nerf

- MT stays relatively the same (performance wise)

 

- AVS, more recoil, but less 'random'

- M2 carbine, more recoil, more range

- STG44, more recoil

 

- Johnson: Less sway

- MG13: Less sway

- DP-28: Less sway

 

- MG34: Less sway
- BAR: Less sway, less recoil

- DT29: less sway, more recoil (nerf to fit better as tier 1 weapon)

 

- PPD: slightly more recoil

- PPSH: slightly more recoil + higher RPM

- Thompson: from 4HK to 3HK (non heavy set), less recoil

- MP40: less sway

 

- Flamethrowers: More WOOOSH

- Pistols: Faster PEW PEW

- Racist Offensive grenades: More BOOOM

- nerfed into the ground, once again

- was this necessary?

- lol

 

- uh, sure...?

- sure, makes sense

- uh, why?

- good

- good

- why

 

- good

- good?

- WHY? LOLOL THAT THING SUCKED ALREADY

 

- ok

- LOL AHAHAHAHAHAHA 

- sure, not sure if its stats were lacking at all tho

- sure, same as above tho

 

- ew, cringe

- sure

- cringe

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d|ng    3,323

But nobody is discussing the elephant in the room: 

The very important snowball fix

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drhoops    2,319
8 hours ago, Reto.Hades said:

- Snowballs: 100% more ammo

- Snowballs: 10 per 'cartridge' rather than 1, mostly to improve reloading on ammocrates (now it restocks 1 at a time which lasts forever)

 

2 minutes ago, d|ng said:

But nobody is discussing the elephant in the room: 

The very important snowball fix

 

It's a facking joke.  With all the problems in this game, they actually considered weapon balancing snowballs.  It's an insult to players who love the game and want to see it succeed.  Just keep assaulting E line Town, boys.  Good news though.  You have 10 snowballs not one.  Ridiculous.

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Gerrit.    1,052
2 minutes ago, drhoops said:

It's a facking joke.  With all the problems in this game, they actually considered weapon balancing snowballs.  It's an insult to players who love the game and want to see it succeed.  Just keep assaulting E line Town, boys.  Good news though.  You have 10 snowballs not one.  Ridiculous. 

 

I don't mind that the snowballs were made slightly easier to use, but I would love to see this change to the PTRD as well.

Currently the PTRS is a lot better if only because it gives you 5 bullets instead of 1 each time you refill, so when I need to fill 18 PTRD bullets one by one... it takes a while.

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