zaerius

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About zaerius

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  1. If you want to know neither CoD or Battlefield is using pre-defined spray pattern, they are using vertical recoil with a slight horizontal deviation, similar to what is currently in HaG but with a lot less deviation. There is no horizontal recoil like in RS2 and PUGBG or any kind of spray patern like in CSGO, simply because these games are also on consoles, so any kind of advanced shooting techniques are out of the picture. If you would read through all of what I wrote, you would understand that just the pre-defined spray pattern by itself is not going to be beneficial for this game. CSGO took years to develop a good system which will encourage the true skill based tapping and bursting, instead of the "bad skill" based spraying. If you play or watch CSGO you know that spraying is pretty rare to use in firefights, it is mostly used to wallbang or spam through smokes, but you dont see players do long spraydowns, because it is punished by other game mechanics.
  2. Look we all learned to play this game the hard way, but do you think it is needed to further increase the difficulty to get into this game? My personal opinion is that the issue is the Random Horizontal Deviation of bullets, this is what you guys describe as "Parkinson shake". Its the ture cause of the spray and pray issues this game has. I believe if they replace this mechanic with a proper Horizontal Recoil as showed on the pic above, all your complaints would stop. Having learnable patterns is not a bad solution either, but I believe its much harder to do it properly, also much more time consuming, and we all know RETO... so I think my approach is a lot faster and simpler.
  3. CSGO is aimed at highly competitive playerbase who are willing to spend thousands of hours learning minor details, popflashes, smokes, spraycontrol and so on. Does H&G has the same playerbase? Are you willing to just sit in front of a wall and practice your spraydown? Another thing to keep in mind is that CSGO has a huge playerbase and a highly advanced skill based matchmaking to keep the noobies separated from the highly skilled players. This game has a more casual playerbase, and you have to keep that in mind, I prefer the PUBG shooting system, because it has more friendly approach to the new players. Battlegrounds is a really casual game, they have a skill based shooting system but its relatively easy to get used to. I would prefer to not give any more advantages to the vets if its possible, and with predictable spray patterns you will do exactly that.
  4. My point is that you dont want a system where players can learn 100% the recoil pattern, because then you will just promote for players to learn the pattern and just spray. Any good shooter will discourage and punish spraying, even CSGO does. They have a small random deviation to the spray pattern, they have a recoil cooldown, where the longer you spray your gun the longer it takes to reset your recoil, which means you wont be able to shoot accurately immediately after a 20 bullet spray. If there would not be any additional features discouraging spray, CSGO would be all about spraying on every distance, but it isnt. Vast majority of times players will tap or burst, because thats what the game rewards. RETO can go with the spray pattern, Im not fully against it, but there is a much higher chance that they will screw the gunplay even further with it, because I dont believe they can do it properly.
  5. In games like PUBG or RS2 the recoil is changing directions horizontally, but the spray pattern goes still straight, which means that the recoil in spraydowns will pull the gun off your target. The horizontal recoil will change directions randomly, which makes it hrader to predict and counter act, discouraging longer spraydowns. While in HaG weapons have a huge horizontal deviation after each bullet fired, but it doesnt have horizontal/sideways recoil, which means that all you have to do is to counter act the vertical recoil, there is no horizontal recoil which would take your aim off your target, and the spread will cover bigger area so you dont even have to be as accurate. In HaG I believe the biggest issue is due to the horizontal deviation. The cone of fire opens up right after the first shot, it maximizes to its full extent and it stays fully open during the entire spraydown. This means that in HaG there is no mechanism in place which would promote tapping or bursting, and there is no point to not spray. The horizontal deviation is basically making every rifle a shotgun, which covers larger area than they should while spraying. @AfonsoQQ I think you also misunderstood me, I do not want the current system to stay, I want it reworked to the example of PUBG or RS2. The reason why I said predictable spray patterns are not as good solution, is because its not really as simple as you think, and if its done bad, without additional features to support skill based use like in CSGO, it would be terrible. CSGO has actually extremely complex mechanism behind their shooting mechanics, and I dont trust RETO to pull something similar off. If its done badly it would result in veterans just spraying full mags accurately through the entire map, and that is not something you would want.
  6. Ok fair enough. From the description you gave here I believe the problem which you described is that currently the hipfire just covers a large area, it spreads the bullets randomly on and around the target. The current hipfire mechanics are truly spray and pray, and it doesnt require much skill. All you have to do is to control the easy vertical recoil, and rely on the horizontal spread to randomly hit the target. Here is my proposal. Forget about spread and the sway. What would you think about a recoil which at the beginning of your spraydown would go straight up for 3-5 bullets, and than it would take a hit by the randomizer which would randomize which direction your spray would continue. It could continue upwards or take a 30 degree turn to the left or right side, but the recoil would still pull straight to the given direction. After another few rounds the recoil would again change direction. It would basically pulloff the recoil from the target, but a skilled player could probably react to it and pull it back on target after a few missed rounds. Do you think it would be better? Do you think it would solve your issue with the random headshots? Something similar to the picture from PUBG which I posted above.
  7. the sway pattern is the yellow line FYI not the bullet holes, only the way bullets are distributed has changed. After cone of fire update I already explained how it works. Pre cone of fire how it worked was that the bullets landed on the yellow line, closest to your vertical recoil. So you still dont want to share your opinion what is wrong? Your only opinion is that you hate RNG headshots but dont know the reasons?
  8. The sway pattern is the exact same which I meant to present, but couldnt find a pic for the new system. Before the Cone of fire update there was no horizontal deviation, the recoil was just straight going up(which wasnt good either). With the cone of fire update what they did is that your gun follows the sway pattern inside the cone and your shots will land on that pattern. Thx for posting the correct pic. The main problem with the current system is that the pattern goes extremely fast so our weapons just jump around seemingly randomly while firing, but it actually follows the sway pattern. Btw you still didnt posted your top reasons for random headshots. It is important that if you dont like the current system, point out exactly what you think are the reasons behind your annoyance, so reto can adjust the values.
  9. You are contradicting yourself a bit here. You are saying that you miss from hipfire all the time, but you are one of the most vocal complainers RNG headshots. So please tell me where exactly do you see the core of the issue. What I think there should be improvements to reduce lucky headshots is: Running/strafing hipfire requires extremely low skill level, yet its extremely effective due to the low movement penalty in this game Turning hipfire should be also more penalized Long range spraydown headshots should be addressed by reducing the headshot multiplier as described above in the OP I agree that H&G overdid the sway, and its a bit too much in some cases, and I would rather like to see it being traded for a harder pulling vertical recoil on the guns. There may be a higher tendency to pull left or right with certain weapons but as far as I know the horizontal recoil is randomized, and it can change directions multiple times during a spraydown. As you can see on the image above, the first pattern pulls hardly to the left, but the second one is going left-right-left. This makes long spraydowns unpredictable, since your gun will randomly move off your target. In H&G what we have is a predefined spray pattern which our guns follow during shooting: What this makes is that when we spray our guns the horizontal recoil is changing after every single shot, and it can go not just left to right, but also up and down. This makes the recoil physically impossible to predict, so this mechanic encourages players to just control the vertical recoil, keep their gun aimed at their target and let the horizontal spread do its job. This is one of the main differences betwen H&G and PUBG, and this is what makes spraying in H&G the main playstyle. Exactly my point, in PUBG and CSGO you have multiple mechanics and settings which are encouraging players to fire less amount of bullets, this benefits the better aimers and makes the game more skill based. In H&G there are no mechanics and due to the inaccuracy and imprecision of the guns players are encouraged to keep spraying until they get the kill. Not necessarily they would have to scratch all of their settings. They would have to change a lot of numbers and rework some features, but in general they have very similar basics what PUBG has, so they could just slowly update after update change stuff and increase this game's skill ceiling over time. While if they choose to completely scratch the entire gunplay mechanics what we have and they will start to work on a new CSGO style, predefined spray pattern, there is no proof that it will be better than what they can get out of the current system. It took years for CSGO devs to get the gunplay to the level where it is now, RETO dont have the manpower, time or experience for that, but if they listen to us and they take an example from PUBG we can have a much better gunplay in a few months. Unfortunately I have to agree with you on the testing, it doesnt seem that they have any testers at all. Last 2 years every single update went out to the live servers extremely unfinished and untested, so I highly doubt they have any proper testing team at all. This is exactly what I said. I played CS1.6 for 7-8 years and played CSGO from early beta, when it had less players than H&G has now, and ever since I follow every single update and the pro scene. I know all the changes the game went through. They started off with a pure predefined spray pattern(which we would get most likely), but very quickly they realized that its not going to be viable. They added a random deviation to the spray pattern so its not 100% learnable. The basic pattern is still there but its not reliable and viable to spray over longer distances. Yep this is exactly my point. The current shooting mechanics reward way too much spraying, and puts skill based shooting techniques often in a disadvantageous position. Exactly as you said, single shot and short bursts should be absolute superior to the spraydowns. We dont necessarily need a spray pattern, but what we need is a gradual expansion of the cone of fire, where the first shot is 100% precise and with every single follow up shot the cone exponentially opens, giving a random factor to the vertical and horizontal recoil. This way every single gun could be set up differently where some weapons would be effective to fire in 3 bullet bursts other guns would be effective up till 10 bullets and such. I think you misunderstood my intentions. I want to improve the current mechanics on the example what PUBG gave us. I want more skilful mechanics implemented, which would reduce the randomness at the first bullets fired, and it would punish spraying players. Currently its unfortunately a bit reversed, but it can be changed and achieved with what we have in the game currently. If reto listens in a few months we can get improvements for a more skill based gameplay. We both want the exact same thing, but while you think the CSGO route is easier, I believe improving the mechanics and follow PUBG is a better way.
  10. The last dev stream @Reto.RedBjarne mentioned, that they might consider remaking the current shooting mechanics, which is good news, it needed some improvements, but it really disappointed me when he shared with us that they are thinking about adding pre-defined recoil patterns. I know many of you wanted this, and many of you were happy to hear it, but let me bring up some counter arguments here why I think this change wont be as beneficial as you all want to be. 1.Shooting patterns ease up cheat development If a player can learn the pattern, than there can be scripts made for it. One of the main benefits of the random factor in the spray pattern is that there are no useful nospread scripts or “intelligent” gaming mouses which can give you perfect spraydowns. 2.It promotes a wrong kind of skill Learnable spray patterns do not promote true skill based gameplay, it gives advantage to players who spend more time learning it. Its all about building up a muscle memory to a point where it becomes 2nd nature to move your mouse to the right direction. All what this does is that players will have to spend time to learn the spray pattern, so they will be able to compete with other players who are able to do long accurate spraydowns. This will make the game hard to stay competitive, because if you don't play a week your muscle memory will fade and you won't be able to do as good spraydowns as your enemies who practiced during that week. With all this said, this leads us to my next point: 3.Further increasing the gap between vets and new players It wont matter how good and skilled fps player you are, you wont be able to compete with the vets who have the recoil pattern in their hand, until you spend x hours practicing the recoil. This will make this game extremely hard to pick up. 4.Recoil patterns are an outdated technology It was revolutionary technique when Counter strike came out of beta back in 1999, it offered an advanced shooting technique which the PCs back then could handle. Nowdays its not good enough and even CSGO, who’s legacy is the recoil pattern, tries to move as far away from it as it can. Ever since the beta there were constant updates to the gunplay, they added a random factor to the recoil pattern, they added numerous features which penalizes long sprays. At the early days of CSGO, when the gunplay was much simpler, everyone just sprayed, because after a 100 hours the pattern is almost non existent to you. So the devs started to add a lot of stuff, and nowadays you rarely see players spray. SMGs and LMGs have completely random spray pattern btw. Playerunknown’s Battlegrounds, one of the most successful strategical shooters lately went with an extremely similar system which we have in H&G. They have sway, vertical and horizontal RANDOMIZED recoil. They found a very good setup with almost the same basic features as we have available in H&G. This is the leader of the newest generation of FPS games, it is successful for a reason. Both games have a feature implemented which punishes longer spraydowns. In CSGO more bullets you spray, longer your accuracy regen time will be. In PUBG with every single bullet fired you increase the random factor of your bullets, and increase the chance that your recoil will go sideways. Both games promote highly skilled based gameplay by rewarding players for shooting single bullets or short bursts, and punishes long spraydowns, something we dont have in H&G yet. In fact in this game your second bullet is just as imprecise most of the times as your 30th will be. 5.We need improvements, not a completely new feature The problem with the current system is that RETO implemented just the very basic features, and they never ever came back to improve and upgrade it, to build on what they have. What we got in Adams update was an extremely good step in the right direction, but it wasnt perfect, it was pretty basic, but it doesn't mean they cannot improve it. Some new small features, some values tweaked and this system would be so much better, but we need to point out what our problems exactly are, so they can improve it. We need probably harder vertical recoil, more camera recoil, less sideway spread and more recoil pulling sideways on longer sprays. Is your problem with sway? Ask for a stamina based hold breath button like PUBG has. Is your problem the long range random headshots Ask for the headshot multiplier tied to the weapon’s range. Currently any MG can one hit kill you to the head across the entire map from 1km away because they deal enough damage that th 5x multiplier will make it a OHK. This is something that needs an improvement. So how about at 0m-41dmg we have the 5x HS multiplier but as the damage drops over range, the multiplier goes down with it, so lets say at 200m-28dmg the multiplier drops down to 3x? Is your problem with the CQC headshots? Your problem is not the randomness, but the lack of it. In Adams the hipfire got a huge boost because your bullets land exactly where your crosshair is pointing at, but Reto didnt adjusted the basic hipfire accuracy with it. I honestly believe that the main cause of all the complaints about the HS are because the hipfire is just way too reliable. Its way too precise even while moving, and way too easy to control. I would like to see way worse hipfire accuracy on the guns with higher vertical recoil 6.Improvements would be quicker Lets be real, they just started to talk about it, so probably they can put it in the pipeline in like 6-8 months where Leto will be able to start his work. Developing unique spray patterns would take decent amount of time, and if everything goes right and they dont run into any unexpected issues (bipods??), he would be able to finish it in like 3-4 months. Do you really want to wait a year before RETO does anything about this matter? Or you would accept some minor features and changes which would possibly improve and fix your complaints? 7. Do you trust RETO? I mean, I dont want to offend anyone, but the truth is we had so many features hyped which either never came, or were major disappointments. We received squad 2.0 and the reworked maps with the new and shiny spawn system, and they were a let down, they made the game worse. Months and months went by and we never saw any improvements and changes to it, so do you really want pre-defined spray pattern which might turn out as another let down, another disappointment? For the CSGO devs it took years of constant upgrades to make the shooting mechanics as good as they are, and they are still working on the gunplay, they are reworking the pistols to encourage skilful gameplay instead of spamming them. I dont see this dedication from the H&G dev team, and such important feature needs constant working. Stick with the devil you know... True skill based shooting mechanics are not about memorizing how, when and to which direction your weapon will move. A good shooting mechanic will promote skill based shooting techniques such as rapid single fire tapping, aimed single shots, short bursts and it should penalize lack of self control, panicking and just relying on the quantity of the bullets do the job. Predefined spray patterns will not achieve that, all you will see is players spray the same way they do now, but better players will even more dominate the battlefield as they do now. In games like PUBG or RS2 the recoil is changing directions horizontally, but the spray pattern goes still straight, which means that the recoil in spraydowns will pull the gun off your target. The horizontal recoil will change directions randomly, which makes it harder to predict and counter act, discouraging longer spraydowns. While in HaG weapons have a huge horizontal deviation after each bullet fired, but it doesnt have horizontal/sideways recoil, which means that all you have to do is to counter act the vertical recoil, there is no horizontal recoil which would take your aim off your target, and the spread will cover bigger area so you dont even have to be as accurate. In HaG I believe the biggest issue is due to the horizontal deviation. The cone of fire opens up right after the first shot, it maximizes to its full extent and it stays fully open during the entire spraydown. This means that in HaG there is no mechanism in place which would promote tapping or bursting, and there is no point to not spray. The horizontal deviation is basically making every rifle a shotgun, which covers larger area than they should while spraying.
  11. What is happening is that your client never received information about the first hit(packet loss, latency issues etc), and you receive confirmations for both hits and the kill at the same server tick, which looks like you were killed in one shot.
  12. My bet would be they IP banned some IPs which repeatedly appeared in a lot of cheating cases. In asia there are a lot of huge Internet Cafes with hundreds of PCs, so there is a good chance every now and than someone will try to cheat from there.
  13. Probably the IP got banned due to a lot of kids who used that internet cafe to "have fun" with cheats. Not sure if its possible for reto to add exceptions based on accounts, but worth a try to write a ticket.
  14. After you released the new spawn system and the remade maps, you promised updates and improvements once you gathered enough data and feedback. When will we see these very much needed improvements?
  15. Im against this idea, this would just further increase the gap between new players and veterans, if anything we need to make this gap smaller, so the newbies wouldnt be in sucg disadvantageous position vs vets.